Alfred Edward HALL - What on earth was he up to?

[Shiny1]

Hi All,

I've just had another look at a relative who has already been the subject of quite a long discussion and fascinating family, the original thread is here:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=757722.27

As both him and his wife lied about their ages on the 1939 register I thought I'd try and get confirmation of his children's DOB's thinking they may have been trying to hide the kids ages rather than their own and thus avoid conscription for the kids. However as usual with this family I have found more strange goings on.

Alfred Edward Hall and Georgina English were married in St. Georges Church, Cullercoats on the 30th Sep 1916. That is written very clearly in his WW1 army service record and confirmed on the North Tyneside Council BMD website.

According to the 1939 register Alfred and Georgina had 4 children:
Emma born 30 Mar 1918
Alfred George born 8 Apr 1920
Raymond born 12 May 1925
Jean born 12 Dec 1928

When I checked free BMD to see what years of birth they had registered not one of them was listed using Hall as the father and English as the mother's surnames.

I then checked family search for Alfred George and found him listed as born in 1920 but the mothers maiden name was Richardson.

Another search of free BMD using the Hall / Richardson combination found all 4 children with the year of birth as stated on the 1939 register.

North Tyneside Council BMD website show that an Alfred Hall married a Georgina Richardson at Percy St. John's in 1915.

So my question is can anyone make any sense of all this?

Is it pure coincidence that two different Alfred Hall's have married two different Georgina's within a year of each other?

Why do the children living with Hall and English in 1939 appear to be registered as having a mother called Richardson?

Could this be bigamy? early surrogacy using an ex-wife? trying to conceal their birth mother for some reason? the wrong kids (but if so why aren't their kids with the same names and year of birth registered)?

Answers on a post card please 

Michael

[Milliepede]

My first thought would be had Georgina been married before to a Mr English and Richardson was her maiden name?

How old was she when she married in 1916 do you know if she was down as a spinster or widow?

[Tickettyboo]

Do the local archives/libraries have the registers for these marriages? I'd be starting with the details on the marriage entries for ages/ fathers names and occupations and witnesses. That may help.

Then I'd try to find baptisms for the children to see what the record says (if anything) that could shed more light on it.

Other than that its bite the bullet and raid the piggy bank for the official certs :-(

Boo

[avm228]

Hi Michael

According to reply #19 on the previous thread you have already seen full details of the 1916 marriage register entry.  What does it say about Georgina English’s father as to name and occupation?

[Cwellan CoDown]

My first thought is that there is 2 different sets of Alfred Hall and Georgina's

The first Alfred Hall married Georgina English in 1916 and was in the WW1. (Possibly had no children, possibly died during the war?)

The second married Georgina Richardson and is not the same Alfred Hall as was in WW1, and is living with his wife and children as expected in 1939 - Does the 1939 show a maiden name?

Have you ruled out the possibility of 2 separate couples?

[avm228]

I rather agree that this looks like 2 couples.

The Alfred Hall who married Georgina Richardson did not use a middle name, and you have said his birthdate (per 1939) was 8 Apr 1888 which is not consistent with what is known about your Alfred Edward Hall, whose military records show a birthdate of 28 August 1891.

[Shiny1]

Hi All,

Thank you all for the interest and help.

Millipede, Georgina is listed as a spinster on his service record. Her corrected date of birth on the 1939 register matches what it should be according to the 1901 census so I'm quite sure she is the same person. I haven't got the register with me but will check tonight when I get home.

Boo, I have the register entry at home for the 1916 marriage, I need to check it tonight but in the absence of any notes on FTM I'm assuming I have looked and it matches my existing information (ie the father's match). I'll double check tonight and try and get the 1915 entry as well at the weekend.

AVM228, Georgina's father was called Thomas Limick English, he suffered from angina and unfortunately collapsed and died in the street on his way home from a night shift in 1911. I'm fairly sure marriage register entry backs all of that up listing him as deceased but again, I'll need to confirm it tonight.

Cwellan CoDown, The 1939 register doesn't show maiden names unfortunately but her DOB does match what I'd expect according to the 1901 census. Alfred survived the war and was discharged in 1919. I haven't ruled out two separate couples and a huge coincidence as yet but working on the other things I've found about them (his mothers story and them lying about their ages on the 1939 register) I just can't help thinking there is more to their story here.

Michael

[Shiny1]

Thanks AVM228, maybe I'm getting too caught up in all this and it is actually two separate couples.

I suppose if I have the 1939 register entry for the wrong couple all of the problems disappear.

I think I need to see the other marriage register to answer this.

Michael

[Tickettyboo]

Boo, I have the register entry at home for the 1916 marriage, I need to check it tonight but in the absence of any notes on FTM I'm assuming I have looked and it matches my existing information (ie the father's match). I'll double check tonight and try and get the 1915 entry as well at the weekend.

I had a case where the girl was born to Smith parents. She had been informally adopted as a child by a couple called Jones, first marriage had her father recorded as Fred Jones. The births of her two children by her first marriage were registered with Jones her maiden name.

By the time of her second marriage, she had obviously been told about her birth parents and her father was listed as Charlie Smith. Took me a while to unravel it :-)
Not saying its the case here, but looking at all the relevant records will help to give a better picture.

Boo