Consent of Parents

[Gadget]

I recall that one of the witnesses to the marriage was a William Jones, who made his mark. He could be a parent or brother to one of them. This should narrow the field down.

Where were the couple in the 1841, what were their ages then,  what did they call their children (often used family names), who were their neighbours, etc., etc. As I said earlier, many of my ancestors were in Chirk at that time.

Gadget

[blackpool]

Thanks for the continued interest Gadget. They had 3 children in Chirk - Ruth in 1831, Mary circa 1838 (can't find the bap though she appears on censuses) and John in 1838. They lived at Blackpark and Thomas was a collier. After that they moved to Bilston in the West Midlands. On the various censuses, Thomas says he was born in Chirk; Margaret only survived until 1857 and on the 51 census, helpfully says she came from Wales! There are no baptisms of either a Thomas or Margaret Jones to a William in Chirk at an appropriate time, and I can't see a family who had both a William and a Thomas or a William and a Margaret. Not easy is it?

[Gadget]

They must have rubbed shoulders with my ancestors then as most of them were living Black Park at that time - the odd one at Forge or Cherry Orchard farm.  I'll have a look at some of my off line records.

Also, although saying Chirk,  they might have been St Martins/Acrefair/Ruabon.

(I didn't have any Joneses until I went back to the previous generation and then going back further, I had 8 separate line - not Chirk!)

Have you tried the tithe maps:

https://places.library.wales/

I found some of mine around Black Park on them.


Gadget

Added - what religion where they?

[Gadget]

Was Ruth bpt at Weslyan Methodist, Wrexham.

This states that Thomas and Margaret  were living Pen y Bryn, St Martins then. This is just over the Ceiriog from Pontyblew and then you follow the road around to Black Park. I've done that walk so many times in my youth 

It's equidistant from Black Park Colliery and Ifton Colliery - not sure when Ifton was opened (later if I recall). My family worked in both.

John was then baptised 1938  in Chirk (parish registers). I wonder if they were twins and Mary was missed - it did happen! Or, they could have moved to Black Park just before John was born.

[blackpool]

Thanks for the link to the tithe maps. It's not the most user friendly of web sites is it? I shall persevere. My major problem with Thomas Jones is not knowing when he was born. According to the censuses , he was 25 in 1841, 40 in 1851, 55 in 1861, and 68 in 1871 - and yes, it is the same person as he has the same children with him throughout. Not very helpful!

[Gadget]

His birth date seems to retreat with each census!

I had a look for him on the tithe map but he wasn't  listed in Chirk. Not all of mine were either as they didn't rent or own any land.  He was likely still across the border in Pen y bryn, St Martins.  I think there are some English tithe maps now online but haven't looked at them - will investigate.

Gadget

[blackpool]

 Looking again at the tithe maps, I can see that there is a Thomas Jones occupying a property whose map is centred on Pen y Bryn so that may well be him as that was where he gave his address at the baptism of his daughter Ruth in 1831. Not sure where it gets me though.
And in answer to an earlier question, they baptised their children at Bilston at a Methodist chapel and Margaret was buried there.

[Gadget]

Hmm - my map doesn't show him - must be further in - I have 2 around there for a Robert Jones.

Have you checked St Martins or the non-c records for possible baptisms for Thomas or Margaret?

[blackpool]

My mistake - the map is at Pont-y-blew - pretty close though. The St Martin parish church records are online but not the methodist chapels and I live in Yorkshire so it's not just a matter of nipping down the road to check. It will have to go on an ever expanding list of things to look up.