Author Topic: Mary ?, b.c. 1830-31 (another conundrum in the Hart family)  (Read 650 times)

Offline lucymags

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Mary ?, b.c. 1830-31 (another conundrum in the Hart family)
« on: Friday 16 March 18 08:07 GMT (UK) »
Having been busy in America for a while, putting together the family of Eli Hart (b. Newick 1827-9) who migrated to the US around 1857, I've returned to trying to trace his wife and mother of his two daughters, Mary. The first daughter, Emily, was born in England c.1855-7, according to the 2 US records I have of her age.

Eli was in Newick in 1841 (app. bricklayer to his father) but doesn't feature in the 1851 census. (There is a US migration card dated 1850 which could mean that he made an earlier trip, but this is not known.) What we do know is that he, Mary (born c.1831-2) and 2 daughters (2nd born in the US) feature in the 1860 US census and other records suggest that his actual migration date was 1856-7.

Looking at the Emily Harts who were born in the 1855-1857 period, the only one which looks close-ish to Newick is this one:
HART, EMILY  JANE      WATTS        
GRO Reference: 1855  J Quarter in BRIGHTHELMSTON  Volume 02B  Page 186

However, searching for a suitable Mary Watts doesn't really lead anywhere (the nearest seems to be an older Mary Watts, 1841 Census Uckfield).

Now, coincidence or not, there's an Eli Hart with father Thomas, both bricklayers (all true of the Eli who went to the US), who marries a Jane Court Stanway in Southwark on 20 Feb 1853. I can see the record on Ancestry, which is signed by the groom but the witnesses are both her family - her brother Samuel and his wife Anne. Then Jane Court Hart appears in the 1971 Census with her brother and sister-in-law in Cripplegate, with Jane shown as widowed. I cannot see any children of that marriage, nor a death certificiate for an Eli Hart during the period 1853-1871. So that is a mystery.

It's possible that Emily was not born in Sussex, but there are a lot of Emily Harts born in that period and I'm not really willing to fork out for all of their birth certificates! I even tried looking for possible matches with Mary + MMNs in the London area (that seeming most likely, after Sussex), but got no further than ruling out two of them that way...

When I get to the LDS FHC to access their Newick PR records, it's possible that I find a marriage there. However I would have expected to find the civil records on FamilySearch as well?

Does anyone has any ideas about any other avenues of investigation, or sources that I can't find, to confirm any of these relationships?  ??? It's always possible that I missed something, of course.

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Offline sillgen

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Re: Mary ?, b.c. 1830-31 (another conundrum in the Hart family)
« Reply #1 on: Friday 16 March 18 08:22 GMT (UK) »
Baptism at Newick

Eli   HART    7th Dec    1829   
Parents: Thomas   & Sarah Hart
Occupation     Bricklayer   

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Offline sillgen

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Re: Mary ?, b.c. 1830-31 (another conundrum in the Hart family)
« Reply #2 on: Friday 16 March 18 08:28 GMT (UK) »
There is a possible marriage for Thomas on the Sussex Marriage Index.  To Sarah Siffleet 12th Feb 1814 at Newick.  Both of the parish.  Witnesses are Edw and Rhoda Grinsted.  A long time until the birth of Eli though.
Are you a member of the Sussex Family History Society?  Their online records have several children baptised to Thomas and Sarah from 1815 onwards.
PS   Several is an understatement - I lost count after 12!

Offline lucymags

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Re: Mary ?, b.c. 1830-31 (another conundrum in the Hart family)
« Reply #3 on: Friday 16 March 18 08:32 GMT (UK) »
Ah, yes, thanks for those, sillgen. Sorry, should have said, I do already have the parents (as per your find - they had lots of children!) but was just trying to trace Eli's line (which goes on to fizzle out in the US, after several dramas along the way).

Eli was baptised on the same day as his younger brother, but he turns out to be a few years older.

Edit: No, not a member myself but another relative who is obtained all of the baptisms. I've also gone a long way back up both lines already - I just wanted to return to this family to complete as much as I could find on a few of the siblings whose profiles were bare apart from the baptisms. I've made one trip to the LDS centre to look at some earlier Newick records, but I intend to revisit when I can to look for some of the unknowns.

Offline avm228

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Re: Mary ?, b.c. 1830-31 (another conundrum in the Hart family)
« Reply #4 on: Friday 16 March 18 09:16 GMT (UK) »
Emily Jane Hart b 1855 seems to have been baptised in Broadwater 8 July 1855 to Alfred & Emma, is with them in 1861 with birthplace Brighton, and may be the Emily Hart who died in Brighton Dec qtr 1862 aged 7.

Alfred Hart & Emma Watts marr Jun qtr 1855 Brighton.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline lucymags

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Re: Mary ?, b.c. 1830-31 (another conundrum in the Hart family)
« Reply #5 on: Friday 16 March 18 09:38 GMT (UK) »
Oh - thanks for that, avm. I'm glad to be able to rule that one out, at least.

I'll try revisiting a search on birth year on FS and Ancestry tomorrow and compare with the GRO ones and see if I can manage to rule out some more and narrow it down a bit more in that way.

Offline avm228

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Re: Mary ?, b.c. 1830-31 (another conundrum in the Hart family)
« Reply #6 on: Friday 16 March 18 09:43 GMT (UK) »
Given that Eli may well have been lawfully married to someone else, I would have thought there is a good chance Emily was born out of wedlock and registered (if at all) under Mary’s maiden name.

What is the first known record of Emily - is it the 1860 US census (in NY) where she is recorded as aged 3 on 8 July 1860?
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline lucymags

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Re: Mary ?, b.c. 1830-31 (another conundrum in the Hart family)
« Reply #7 on: Friday 16 March 18 09:59 GMT (UK) »
Good point! And may have been the reason for their skedaddling off to the US?!

Yes, that's the first record, and the only other one is upon re-entry via New York in 1871 after a visit back to the old country, when Emily's age is recorded as 16. (She disappears off the radar after that - I got some help in the US sub-forum with that part of the family history and searched all I could but I think that she probably died before the 1880 census.)

If that's the case, and he was up in London and married to Jane, then the baby may have been born to Mary there but impossible to find without knowing her maiden name. Catch 22.

Offline avm228

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Re: Mary ?, b.c. 1830-31 (another conundrum in the Hart family)
« Reply #8 on: Friday 16 March 18 10:01 GMT (UK) »
As you say, the family must have come back to England for a visit from which they returned in 1871.

Frustratingly their vessel American Union was due (according to a newspaper advertisement) to sail from London on 28 March, meaning they would have missed the English census on 2 April 1871.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)