Hannah Carr - can anyone help?

[wugga2010]

Hi everyone. I've reached a bit of a dead end with one part of my research and I was wondering if anyone might be able to help? I'm trying to find out a little more about my third great grandmother Hannah Carr. I can't seem to find any details about her birth or marriage. From census information I think she was born about 1845 in Belper, Derbyshire and married to Robert Copland, a stone mason born in 1829 in Cadder, Scotland.

In 1871 they were living in Malpas with their son Robert who was born in 1868 (it says he was born in Derbyshire but I think he was actually born in Blackburn).

In 1881 they were in Saddleworth with Robert, Isabella who was born in 1871 in Harthill, Cheshire, and John who was born about 1876 in Siddal.

Robert (senior) died in 1887 in Saddleworth and Hannah is on the 1891 census in Saddleworth with John and Robert.

I think I have found Hannah Carr listed as living in Belper Union Workhouse aged 6 on the 1851 census, but there are no other Carrs listed so could she have been orphaned? I can't find her on the 1861 census.

I don't understand why I can't find her birth details or any records of a marriage between her and Robert Copland.

If anyone can help I'd be really grateful - I hate not being able to make any progress with this branch of my family!

Charlotte

[rosie99]

Welcome to rootschat

This birth ties in with the 1881 census

COPELAND, ROBERT       mmn CARR     
1867  Dec Quarter in BARNSLEY UNION  Volume 09C  Page 155   
 

[rosie99]

Possible sibling
COPLAND, ALBERT       mmn CARR     
1869  Dec Quarter in BASFORD  Volume 07B  Page 114

Deaths Mar qtr 1871   
Copland    Albert   age 1   
Chester    8a   253
Where they were living when Isabella was born

[garstonite]

Hiya Wugga and a warm welcome to Rootschat - do you think she may have been  born Hannah Catherine Carr ?
www.geneanet.org
carr
Hannah
search
then - edit search
Derbyshire England
1840 -1850
page 2
very last one is the only one born Belper - BUT ...states Hannah Catherine Carr - if it is her - she may have married as Catherine Carr ??
anyway - have a look at this link

https://en.geneanet.org/fonds/individus/?country__0__=GBR&country__1__=&country__2__=&country__3__=&country__4__=&exact_day=&exact_month=&exact_year=&from=1840&go=1&ignore_each_patronyme=&ignore_each_prenom=&nom=carr&page=2&place__0__=&place__1__=&place__2__=&place__3__=&place__4__=&prenom=hannah&prenom_operateur=or&region__0__=ENG&region__1__=&region__2__=&region__3__=&region__4__=&size=10&subregion__0__=DBY&subregion__1__=&subregion__2__=&subregion__3__=&subregion__4__=&to=1850&type_periode=between&zonegeo__0__=Derbyshire%2C+England%2C+United+Kingdom&zonegeo__1__=&zonegeo__2__=&zonegeo__3__=&zonegeo__4__=

[garstonite]

here is one record for you - born 1867 - not 1868 as you thought - AND an address for you to research

Baptism: 31 May 1868 St Peter, Blackburn, Lancashire, England
 Robert Copland - [Child] of Robert Copland & Hannah
     Born: 20 Dec 1867
     Abode: 21 Byrom St.
     Occupation: stone mason
     Baptised by: Henry Elwell
     Register: Baptisms 1855 - 1869, Page 358, Entry 2858
     Source: LDS Film 1849642
 
on second thoughts - he was baptised 5 months after his birth - he may well have been born Derbyshire but definitely baptised Blackburn 

[garstonite]

Welcome to rootschat

This birth ties in with the 1881 census

COPELAND, ROBERT       mmn CARR     
1867  Dec Quarter in BARNSLEY UNION  Volume 09C  Page 155

Hiya Rosie - is that Barnsley ,Yorkshire that registration ?? or is Barnsley just the name of a Workhouse ?

[heywood]

Welcome from me too   

You have Robert born 1828 but in 1871 3716/150/9 he is born abt 1833 and in 1881 4364/15/23
Born abt 1831.
He is quite a few years older than Hannah whichever, so I wonder if he was already married and maybe that is why you cannot find a marriage. I haven’t look though and it may be there but mistranscribed.

Heywood

[rosie99]

Welcome to rootschat

This birth ties in with the 1881 census

COPELAND, ROBERT       mmn CARR     
1867  Dec Quarter in BARNSLEY UNION  Volume 09C  Page 155

Hiya Rosie - is that Barnsley ,Yorkshire that registration ?? or is Barnsley just the name of a Workhouse ?

Barnsley registration district - the GRO index refers to registration districts as Unions
 https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp

Also mentioned here
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=758727.msg6095992#msg6095992

[garstonite]

what about this idea ??   Hannah is in workhouse aged 6 - was she adopted and changed her surname - then reverted to it when she married for mmn purposes
1864 - which would make Hannah 19
Robert Copeland to Hannah Hope at St Nicholas church 7th March ,Newcastle Upon Tyne
Hannah Hope father Thomas Hope
Robert Copeland father George Copeland
THEN - 1871 census Robert and Hannah are down as Copeland


Robert Copeland
 
England and Wales Census, 1871
 Name     Robert Copeland   
 Event Type     Census   
 Event Date     1871   
 Event Place     Bickerton, Cheshire, England   
 Enumeration District     10   
 Gender     Male   
 Age     3   
 Relationship to Head of Household     Son   
 Birth Year (Estimated)     1868   
 Birthplace     N K, Derbyshire   
 Entry Number     25   
 Affiliate Image Identifier     GBC/1871/3716/0312 
..................................
they are in Bickerton ,Cheshire - as a Stone Mason Robert would obviously move around work wise .
so - we have Robert born Scotland and working in Derbyshire / Lancashire / Cheshire - did he work in Northumberland as well
if so
GEORGE COPELAND - ( Roberts fathers name )
baptised 18th July 1865 Heworth , Durham
father Robert Copeland
mother Hannah Copeland
or am I clutching at straws ??
added
death 1866 in Durham for George Copeland aged 0 ....