Author Topic: Parish registers for Farr and Strathy  (Read 4821 times)

Offline Munro84

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Parish registers for Farr and Strathy
« on: Sunday 18 March 18 21:07 GMT (UK) »
Quick question:

The parish of Farr was a huge parish in the north of Sutherland. However, it appears that in 1833 the estate of Strathy which was in the parish of Farr broke off and became its own parish. As such the Strathy parish register is searchable on the ScotlandsPeople website from 1833 onwards.

However, having downloaded a parish baptism record from 1828 which ScotlandsPeople has in the Farr parish register for an Adam Mackay, son of James Mackay and Chirsty Gordon, at the top of the image of the original document it actually says "Baptisms in Strathy".

Can anyone elighten me ?

The 1828 baptism record does not give the name of the village or farmstead, but the baptism records for the same couple's first two children say that they were in Dalvigouse (Dalvighouse/Dalveghouse) which is south of Invernaver and well within the area which continued to be covered by the Farr parish register after Strathy had broken off in 1833.

Offline ColC

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Re: Parish registers for Farr and Strathy
« Reply #1 on: Monday 19 March 18 09:44 GMT (UK) »
This information on GENUKI might help?

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/SUT/Farr

Colin
Clarke, Trickett, Orton, Lawless, Norton, Detheridge, Kirby, Goodfellow, Wagstaff, Lowe, etc.

Offline DonM

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Re: Parish registers for Farr and Strathy
« Reply #2 on: Monday 19 March 18 10:58 GMT (UK) »
The first entry on this page is dated 1817 and the last 1830.  You have a page of the before and after the establishment of the new quoad sacra parish.

The registrar's were not required to enter the place of birth nor date of birth.

Don

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Offline Munro84

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Re: Parish registers for Farr and Strathy
« Reply #3 on: Monday 19 March 18 18:17 GMT (UK) »
The first entry on this page is dated 1817 and the last 1830.  You have a page of the before and after the establishment of the new quoad sacra parish.

The registrar's were not required to enter the place of birth nor date of birth.

Don

What exactly do you mean ? Yes, the last entry on the page is from 1830 but that is before the creation of the new parish of Strathy not after. What I am getting at is that, yes, this page is from before when the separated parish of Strathy was created in 1833, yet at the top of the page it says "Baptisms in Strathy".

So did the Farr parish register, before 1833 when the parish of Strathy was created, have separate listings for different parts of the parish such as Strathy  ?

More to the point, my question would be, baring in mind that the 1828 parish baptism entry for Adam Mackay in the Farr parish register, son of James Mackay and Chirsty Gordon, is on the page entitled "Baptisms in Strathy", is it possible that they could still be living in the village of Dalvighouse, parish of Farr, which is not in Strathy, and south of Invernaver where they were when their first two children were born in 1813 and 1817 ?


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Re: Parish registers for Farr and Strathy
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 21 March 18 10:49 GMT (UK) »
I think there is a reasonable explanation for this.

You've almost certainly heard of the Highland Clearances, when thousands of crofters were evicted from their land to make way for sheep, which were more profitable than people. Many of the evicted crofters were sent off, or emigrated of their own free will, mainly to North America.

However not all emigrated. Many were re-settled in villages around the coast, and had to turn from farming to fishing to make a livelihood. Even in parishes where clearance did not take place, there were significant shifts in population as new industries grew and new towns and villages began to develop. This result of this was that in many large parishes there were significant numbers of people who lived too far from the parish kirk to attend services regularly, and this was seen as A Bad Thing by the kirk and the government.

So the government came up with a scheme to provide chapels-of-ease, that is, additional kirks in such villages. See http://www.geograph.org.uk/article/Thomas-Telfords-Parliamentary-Kirks

Strathy was one of the places that got a Parliamentary kirk, in 1828. So from 1828 until Strathy was disjoined quoad sacra from Farr, the kirk at Strathy was an outpost, if you like, of Farr Parish Kirk.

What I think probably happened is that the minister at Strathy kept a register of baptisms and marriages there, but that he sent his records periodically to the parish minister, and the session clerk for the whole parish duly copied the information into the main parish register.

After Strathy became a parish in its own right, this would no longer be necessary, but for the few years between the building of Strathy Kirk and the erection of the Parish of Strathy, you would get events recorded out of sequence in the Farr Parish Register as a result.

BTW there were no registrars in the 1820s and 1830s. Registrars only came into being in 1855, at the start of statutory civil registration of births, marriages and deaths. They were and are required to record the place of the child's birth and the residence of the parents if it is different.

The pre-1855 parish records, including the registers of baptisms, banns and burials, were kept by the session clerk. The Kirk Session is the committee of minister and elders who run the affairs of each kirk, and the session slerk is the secretary of the KS. Quite often the parish schoolmaster also served as session clerk.

Some kept better records than others, recording not only the name of the father's name and the date of baptism, but also such details as the child's given name(s), sex and date of birth; the mother's name; the parents' residence; the place of baptism; the names, occupations, and residences of witnesses and their relationship to the child, and even the person after whom the child was named. (Though I have yet to see a baptism record containing all of these details.)
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

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Re: Parish registers for Farr and Strathy
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 21 March 18 11:11 GMT (UK) »
More to the point, my question would be, baring in mind that the 1828 parish baptism entry for Adam Mackay in the Farr parish register, son of James Mackay and Chirsty Gordon, is on the page entitled "Baptisms in Strathy", is it possible that they could still be living in the village of Dalvighouse, parish of Farr, which is not in Strathy, and south of Invernaver where they were when their first two children were born in 1813 and 1817 ?
It's possible, but in my opinion unlikely.

As you say, Dalvighouse is south of Invernaver, and on the west bank of the river. To get to Strathy, they would have had to go downriver to the ferry (where there is now a bridge) just south of Invernaver, and the road from there to Strathy passed very close to the parish kirk and manse. Why would they make the extra journey of several miles to a more distant kirk? Or, if the baptism was in the parents' home, which was very common, why would they get a very recently appointed (i.e. not one with whom they already had strong personal ties) minister from a more distant kirk to make the reverse journey, possibly treading on the toes of the more established minister in the parish kirk in the process? Unless the minister of Farr was ill or away somewhere and the minister of Strathy was standing in for him.

It may even be the case that your Mackays were cleared from Dalvighouse to Strathy.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline Munro84

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Re: Parish registers for Farr and Strathy
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 21 March 18 16:38 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for the replies. I am trying to eliminate this couple, the James Mackay and Chirsty Gordon who had Adam baptised as per the parish entry of 1828 in Strathy, as being the same James Dunn Mackay and his wife Chirsty who were living in the village of Armadale around the same time, which is of course in the parish of Strathy.

I have James Dunn Mackay in Armdale on two population lists from 1819. Then I have a Chirsty Mackay as a "widow" and who I think was his wife on rent records for the village from 1829 to 1835. Then on another list from 1837 I have the "widow of James Mackay" in the village of Armadale.

So if the first James Mackay and his wife Chirsty Gordon had their last child baptised in 1828 then that only leaves one year for her to become the widow on the rent records of 1829 to 1835, which is cutting it fine but not at all impossible.

The other problem I have is that on the rent records of 1829 to 1835, from 1831 to 1835, the widow Chirsty Mackay is followed in the lists by two people called William Gordon - who could be relatives if she is the same Chirsty Gordon.


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Re: Parish registers for Farr and Strathy
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 21 March 18 17:46 GMT (UK) »
Hmmm. This may or may not be useful, but in 1841 there is a household in Thurso, Caithness consisting of James McKay, 55, agricultural labourer; Christiana McKay, 55; Adam McKay, 13, tailor apprentice; Donald Sinclair, 35, agricultural labourer; Wm Sutherland, 40, agricultural labourer, all born outside Caithness. Bear in mind that adults' ages were supposed to be rounded down to the nearest 5 years, so assuming that 55 is accurate, James and Christiana could have been any age from 55 to 59.

There are several Chirsty/Christy/Christian/Christina M(a)cKays in the 1851 census who were born in Farr. There is also a confusingly large number of deaths of M(a)cKays with mother's maiden surname Gordon in the 1850s and 1860s in Farr/Kirkton Farr/Strathy. Also a confusing number of death of M(a)Kays, other name Gordon.

That gap in the baptisms between 1817 and 1828 is interesting. Were there other children?
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline Munro84

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Re: Parish registers for Farr and Strathy
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 21 March 18 19:09 GMT (UK) »
Hmmm. This may or may not be useful, but in 1841 there is a household in Thurso, Caithness consisting of James McKay, 55, agricultural labourer; Christiana McKay, 55; Adam McKay, 13, tailor apprentice; Donald Sinclair, 35, agricultural labourer; Wm Sutherland, 40, agricultural labourer, all born outside Caithness. Bear in mind that adults' ages were supposed to be rounded down to the nearest 5 years, so assuming that 55 is accurate, James and Christiana could have been any age from 55 to 59.

There are several Chirsty/Christy/Christian/Christina M(a)cKays in the 1851 census who were born in Farr. There is also a confusingly large number of deaths of M(a)cKays with mother's maiden surname Gordon in the 1850s and 1860s in Farr/Kirkton Farr/Strathy. Also a confusing number of death of M(a)Kays, other name Gordon.

That gap in the baptisms between 1817 and 1828 is interesting. Were there other children?

Hey, thanks again for your big help. The family in Caithness could well be them. I had only checked the 1841 census for the parishes of Farr and Strathy and they are not on it so maybe they moved to Caithness. Even at the lowest possible age of 55 in 1841 for James Mackay and his wife Chirsty they could still be the same couple who were previously in Farr/Strathy, making them born in about 1786. They had two previous children on the parish of Farr registers: Robert "Mckay" born in 1813 and William "Mckay" born in 1817. So if the parents were born in 1786 or earlier as per the census then they would have been old enough to have children in 1813 and and 1817. Also, the Adam Mackay who you have found in the family in Caithness aged 13 matches precisely with the 1828 year of baptism in Strathy/Farr and I believe that only the ages of adults were rounded down. Yes, they are born outside of Caithness. This gives me a lot of hope that they are the James Mackay and Chirsty Gordon who I am trying to eliminate from my investigation. Thanks for your help!