Brickwall? No! A concrete Bunker!

[macwil]

Arthur WILSON & Ann WEIR proclamation of Marriage 1840
30 May Old Monkland, Lanarkshire
Arthur Wilson in this parish & Ann Weir in the Barony parish of Glasgow have given in their names in order As? proclamation of banns. 3 Days. [O.P.R. Marriages 652/00 0030 0159 OLD MONKLAND OR COATBRIDGE]

31 May Barony, Lanarkshire
Arthur Wilson farm servant Old Monkland Parish & Ann Weir residing in Barony Parish
[O.P.R. MARRIAGES 622/00 0180 0039 BARONY]
can't find actual marriage.

1841 Census Cathcart, Renfrewshire. [Census 1841 560/00 004/00 001]
House Of Cross Hill
Arthur Wilson 25   Ag Lab N
Ann Weir or Wilson   20   N
Ann Wilson 2 Mo   N 

James Wilson B c1843 - 1886

The family moved to England before 1851 Census
Class: HO107; Piece: 2198; Folio: 370; Page: 17;

I have probably found most of records after this and am now looking for Scottish Ancestors/details.

Last year I visited Mitchell Library, Glasgow & West Scotland FHS in Glasgow and North Lanarkshire Heritage Centre, Motherwell and all the very kind and helpful people told me the same thing, "That is all you will find. If it's not on ScotlandsPeople it is not there."

I am hoping RC members may know better.  TIA

Scottish Records refs [ ] from ScotlandsPeople.  Crown copyright National Records of Scotland.

[Flattybasher9]

Is this not the marriage ?? WILSON ARTHUR ANN WEIR/FR4755 (FR4755) 31/05/1840 622/180 39  Barony

Malky

[macwil]

Thanks Malky,
It's the same record I've already got. I took it to be a proclamation as the Old Monkland one was entered the day before on a page headed Proclamations. The 31st was a Sunday. Did Scots get married on a Sunday?

Looks as if they've changed their reference codes.

It is a few years since I obtained the records I have, before they changed the website.

I'm afraid Scottish Marriage Law/practices and Parish Records are a puzzle to me. The only Scottish documents I've found for my relatives are the three quoted above, the census I understand, the rest I haven't a clue.

Regards
Malcolm

[Wendy2305]

Hi you may find a clue to their parents names in the names of their children
You could then search for their christening record

Also the marriage records are maiinly banns Scotts got married normally in the brides home rather than church You may occasionally find a note in the banns of the marriage

[MonicaL]

He was pretty consistent with a birth year of 1813 wasn't he (from 1851-1871).

Children from censuses show as Ann, James, gap, then Margaret and Arthur (from 1861 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M71N-G9D  Have you managed to find other children? Thought it might help you when considering possible naming pattern used (if used) for their children and possible clues to grandparents' names.

Monica

Added: Sorry, Wendy...posts crossed over!

[macwil]

Hi Wendy & Monica,
Only the four children and only the two scottish Parish register entries in OP.
I do have transcription of Arthur jr Baptism from LanOPC but not Margaret's, in fact I don't have Margaret's birth at all, just the census data. It doesn't appear in Wigan RD in GRO nor Lancs BMD.
The problem is with such common names the records are too numerous, especially as I have no idea if Arthur and Ann were native to Lanarkshire or elsewhere, even Ireland may be a posssibility.

Regards,
Malcolm.

[MonicaL]

Malcom, you can go through the new(ish) GRO search facility which now lets you search with mother's maiden name. Takes a little whiles as you have to go year -2+/-, and male/female, but it is a great bonus to now be able to do that.

I think Ann's maiden name sometimes shows as WIER, as it does in daughter Margaret's reg in 1851. One possible daughter here:

WILSON, ELIZABETH - WIER        
GRO Reference: 1856  D Quarter in WIGAN  Volume 08C  Page 27

It is the early births and children's names that can often help.

Monica

[macwil]

Hi Monica,
 I was just about to post I had found her in GRO 1851 Q3 with MMN as WIER. I had been specifying MMN WEIR
I'll send for cert with proviso father is Arthur.

I'll have to check Elizabeth as well, it is a family name.
Thank you.

Regards
Malcolm.

EDIT: Checked LancsBMD with MMN as WIER both turned up.
Just ordered both Certs. with proviso of father being Arthur. We'll see if it is two more for the collection.

Looks like Elizabeth didn't survive, she's not on '61 census and Lancs BMD have a death in '56 and '57 for under 1 year olds.

[Forfarian]

Arthur WILSON & Ann WEIR proclamation of Marriage 1840
30 May Old Monkland, Lanarkshire
Arthur Wilson in this parish & Ann Weir in the Barony parish of Glasgow have given in their names in order As? proclamation of banns. 3 Days. [O.P.R. Marriages 652/00 0030 0159 OLD MONKLAND OR COATBRIDGE]

31 May Barony, Lanarkshire
Arthur Wilson farm servant Old Monkland Parish & Ann Weir residing in Barony Parish
[O.P.R. MARRIAGES 622/00 0180 0039 BARONY]
can't find actual marriage.

You won't find anything more than you already have. The kirk was more interested in ensuring that the correct procedure was gone through, i.e. the intended marriage was proclaimed three times from the pulpit of the parish kirk or, if the couple lived in different parishes, both pulpits. Once the proclamations had been completed, they often didn't bother to record the actual marriage ceremony.

Last year I visited Mitchell Library, Glasgow & West Scotland FHS in Glasgow and North Lanarkshire Heritage Centre, Motherwell and all the very kind and helpful people told me the same thing, "That is all you will find. If it's not on ScotlandsPeople it is not there."
I am hoping RC members may know better.

With very, very few exceptions, all these people are quite right. If it's not on SP it doesn't exist.

So what are the exceptions?

In 1855, when statutory civil registration began, the Registrar General was empowered to requisition all the parish registers of the Church of Scotland, and with very few exceptions they did get them, and took them into safe keeping.

SP has also arranged with the Roman Catholic Church to digitise all the RC baptism, banns and burial records, and they have digitised and indexed the majority of those records of other Presbyterian churches which are held in the National Records of Scotland.

The biggest gap in the records available on SP is the surviving registers of the Scottish Episcopal Church. These have not been gathered into a central repository, and are hence not available for SP to digitise. Some remain in the churches, some are in diocesan archives and some are in university or local archives. There are also a few registers of other Presbyterian denominations, Methodist, Congregational and other Protestant churches, and records of any non-Christian organisations, if indeed they exist before 1855.

Estimates of the number of baptisms missing from the surviving records vary. In my tree I have 5896 pre-1855 births, but I have only seen 4132 of their baptism records. So there are 1764 people whose baptisms I have not found, which is about 30%.