Author Topic: Missing baptisms Liverpool 1820s  (Read 425 times)

Online cristeen

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Missing baptisms Liverpool 1820s
« on: Wednesday 21 March 18 12:20 GMT (UK) »
I have a couple, Thomas Wilk(e)s and Agnes Jackson, marrying by licence at St James Toxteth Park on 19th Oct 1821. Thomas is a widower & Agnes a spinster. They have two children born in Liverpool, probably before the marriage but I have only found burial records for these children.
Is it likely they did not baptise the babies because they were unmarried?
I have traced the couple through censuses and parish records, newspapers etc from Liverpool to Ulverston, Pennybridge, Kendal, Preston, Birkenhead and found seven later baptisms and some corresponding burials. I also have a burial and a  baptism for two sons born to Thomas's previous marriage.
The missing Liverpool baptisms are for Matthew Jackson Wilks, buried 7th November 1820 at St Marks, Liverpool (aged 9 weeks, son of Thomas Wilks & Agnes, Jordan Street) and Hannah Philips Wilkes buried 23rd November 1823 at St Mary's Ulverston (aged 2 years, abode Sandside)
Any help on this would be appreciated :)
Christine
Newson, Steavenson, Walker, Taylor, Dobson, Gardner, Clark, Wilson, Smith, Crossland, Goldfinch, Burnett, Hebdon, Peers, Strother, Askew, Bower, Beckwith, Patton, White, Turner, Nelson, Gilpin, Tomlinson, Thompson, Spedding, Wilkes, Carr, Butterfield, Ormandy, Wilkinson, Cocking, Glover, Pennington, Bowker, Kitching, Langhorn, Haworth, Kirkham.

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Offline emeltom

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Re: Missing baptisms Liverpool 1820s
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 21 March 18 13:36 GMT (UK) »
It is possible that the children weren't baptised. It is also possible that if they were baptised then the information has not yet been put on line. Could they have been nonconformist baptisms?

Emeltom
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Online cristeen

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Re: Missing baptisms Liverpool 1820s
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 21 March 18 14:24 GMT (UK) »
Hi Emeltom, I doubt they were non-conformists, however I base that assumption on the fact that all their other children were baptised and buried at C of E churches.
Newson, Steavenson, Walker, Taylor, Dobson, Gardner, Clark, Wilson, Smith, Crossland, Goldfinch, Burnett, Hebdon, Peers, Strother, Askew, Bower, Beckwith, Patton, White, Turner, Nelson, Gilpin, Tomlinson, Thompson, Spedding, Wilkes, Carr, Butterfield, Ormandy, Wilkinson, Cocking, Glover, Pennington, Bowker, Kitching, Langhorn, Haworth, Kirkham.

Offline garstonite

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Re: Missing baptisms Liverpool 1820s
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 22 March 18 10:08 GMT (UK) »
MANY MANY couples babtised their children at their Parish church - sometimes miles from where they lived - you mentioned Ulverston

Baptism: 25 Jan 1824 St Mary, Ulverston, Lancashire, England
 Samuel James Wilks - Son of Thomas Wilks & Agnes
     Abode: Sandside
     Occupation: Locksmith
     Baptised by: R. Yarker Off. Minister
     .................................................

Baptism: 8 Sep 1826 St Mary, Ulverston, Lancashire, England
 Joseph Mark Wilks - Son of Thomas Wilks & Agnes
     Abode: Sandside
     Occupation: Bell Hanger
     Baptised by: J. Sunderland Minister
     Register: Baptisms 1823 - 1827 from the Bishop's Transcripts, Page 242, Entry 1934
     Source: LDS Film 1040310
............................................................

Baptism: 5 Jun 1831 St Mary, Ulverston, Lancashire, England
 Agnes Wilks - dr. of Thomas Wilks & Agnes
     Abode: Ulverston
     Occupation: Locksmith & Bell Hanger
     Baptised by: J. Sunderland
     Register: Baptisms 1828 - 1835, Page 338, Entry 2691
     Source: LDS Film 1040311

..............................................................................
Baptism: 4 Mar 1838 St John, Preston, Lancashire, England
 Richard Barker Jackson Wilks - [Child] of Thomas Wilks & Agnes
     Abode: Bridge St
     Occupation: Locksmith
     Baptised by: certified by W. M. Farish
     Register: Baptisms 1836 - 1838, Page 275, Entry 2196
     Source: LDS Film 1278755
 
I presume they went back there to live .and then on to Preston ?
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Online cristeen

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Re: Missing baptisms Liverpool 1820s
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 22 March 18 10:58 GMT (UK) »
garstonite, Yes these are some of the subsequent offspring :) Thomas moved around quite a lot. I believe his first marriage was in Westminster, no children found for this union. Thomas then married again in Liverpool, two sons to this marriage, one survived. He married Agnes around the time he went bankrupt, I suspect this triggered the move to Ulverston; Agnes was from that area. A couple of children were born in Kendal. The family moved to Preston again because of bankruptcy & Thomas had several court cases regarding fraud; he had quite the reputation for a while. In 1851 he is in Birkenhead and finally died a few years later near Preston!
I am fairly certain that the two children born before/ around the time Thomas & Agnes married 'belong' to them, based on naming patterns, dates & burial records. I was hoping to find baptisms in order to back up my assumptions :)
Newson, Steavenson, Walker, Taylor, Dobson, Gardner, Clark, Wilson, Smith, Crossland, Goldfinch, Burnett, Hebdon, Peers, Strother, Askew, Bower, Beckwith, Patton, White, Turner, Nelson, Gilpin, Tomlinson, Thompson, Spedding, Wilkes, Carr, Butterfield, Ormandy, Wilkinson, Cocking, Glover, Pennington, Bowker, Kitching, Langhorn, Haworth, Kirkham.

Offline martin young

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Re: Missing baptisms Liverpool 1820s
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 22 March 18 11:59 GMT (UK) »
Hi Emeltom, I doubt they were non-conformists, however I base that assumption on the fact that all their other children were baptised and buried at C of E churches.

Most of my (Manchester) ancestors were baptised in the Cathedral, but I found one at the local Methodist church. Just saying, it happens.

Offline ShaunJ

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Re: Missing baptisms Liverpool 1820s
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 22 March 18 12:21 GMT (UK) »
Quote
Matthew Jackson Wilks, buried 7th November 1820 at St Marks, Liverpool (aged 9 weeks, son of Thomas Wilks & Agnes, Jordan Street)

Just to confirm that this is indeed your Thomas Wilks, the bell-hanger, this is from Gore's 1821 Liverpool directory:
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Online cristeen

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Re: Missing baptisms Liverpool 1820s
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 22 March 18 14:28 GMT (UK) »
Hi martin young, thanks, I haven't ruled out non conformist baptisms. I'm sure there were lots of choices in Liverpool at that time.
ShaunJ, thank you for that snippet. I have searched directories several times for Thomas with no result. It surprised me that I couldn't find any entries because I get the impression (from later newspaper articles) that he had a high opinion of himself & would be advertising his services :)
Newson, Steavenson, Walker, Taylor, Dobson, Gardner, Clark, Wilson, Smith, Crossland, Goldfinch, Burnett, Hebdon, Peers, Strother, Askew, Bower, Beckwith, Patton, White, Turner, Nelson, Gilpin, Tomlinson, Thompson, Spedding, Wilkes, Carr, Butterfield, Ormandy, Wilkinson, Cocking, Glover, Pennington, Bowker, Kitching, Langhorn, Haworth, Kirkham.