Elspet Jane PIRIE

[sw1]

I have a problem with a PIRIE.  Doing research for a friend and this is one big stumbling block.

Elspet Jane PIRIE b 1863 Old Machar, dau of William PIRIE and Jane Dunn. 
She appears in the 1871 census with her family.

Next appearance is as the named mother on the marriage certificate of her daughter, Elspet (Elsie) Jane FINDLAY  marriage certificate when she married David Wilson NICOL.
Marriage: 27 Feb 1900.  David Wilson Nicol, bachelor and labourer aged 22, married Elspet Jane Findlay, spinster and provision worker aged 21, married after publication according to the forms of the established Church of Scotland on 27 Feb 1900 at 57 Queen Street, Aberdeen. David's accommodation noted as 3 Farrier Lane, Aberdeen and Elspet's accommodation noted as 57 Queen Street, Aberdeen. David's parents named as George Nicol, trawler engine fitter, deceased and Elizabeth Nicol MS McAllister. Elspet's parents named as John Findlay, labourer at gas works and Elspet Jane Findlay MS Pirie. Witnesses were James Jamieson and James Williamson.

David and Elspet had a daughter, Maggie Bell NICOL b 1898, 2 years before they were married and Maggie is marked as illegitimate on her birth certificate; mother signed as Elsie Findlay. Father also signed the birth certificate. Where does the name BELL come from?  But that’s another problem!

I tried to find a birth of Elspet Jane FINDLAY and found a possibility dated Dec 1879. Father John Findlay; mother Jane Pirie; married 1872 Portsoy. Downloaded that marriage only to find that the mother named her parents as Alexander PIRIE and Ann, so back to square one.

There is a possible marriage at Peterhead in 1900 but that can’t be right! They are on the 1901 census with a young son James.

I am beginning to wonder if Elsie’s mother, Elspet b 1863 gave birth to Elsie as an illegitimate child. The mother would only have been 16 years old at the time! Sounds fishy to me.  But where did Elsie get her father’s name of John FINDLAY from???

If anyone can help out here, I’d be enormously grateful. There are so many PIRIE and FINDLAY in Aberdeenshire the words haystack and pin often come to mind!!  Thank you for reading all this so far!

Suzie (in Orkney)

[Wendy2305]

If she was illegitimate have you tried under the surname Pirie
There is an Elsie Jane Pirie born 1879 Keith on Scotlands People

[sw1]

Thank you, Wendy.  I'll have a look at that.
Suzie

[MonicaL]

Hi Suzie

How have you confirmed that the Elspeth Jane b. 1863 is the correct mother?

Have you got Elsie in 1901 and 1911 to confirm her birth place?

Monica

[sw1]

Monica.

I just have details of the certificate from Scotlands People but have not downloaded it to be honest. She was the 4th of 8 children in that family (William Pirie and Jane Dunn) and appeared with her parents in 1871 aged 7 named Elspet.

In 1901 I have her as the wife of David Wilson Nicol as per the marriage of 27 Feb 1900 details of which I gave in my first post. 

This afternoon, I have trawled the 1881 and 1891 but to no avail. I also looked for a John Findlay/Findley, a gas worker in 1901 but nothing came up.   It's a real mystery.  I am 99.9% convinced that if I pay to download the birth of Elsie b 1863 it will show her parents as per the 1871 census. BUT....having just looked at the years of birth of all the children...they are all 2 years between them except Elspet, so maybe I should download the certificate to be sure.

The 1900 marriage of John Findlay to Jane Pirie at Peterhead is NOT my Elspet (Elsie) Jane Pirie.

Suzie

[sw1]

Monica,

Yes, as I thought....
Daughter of William Pirie and Jane Dunn. Correct address of family too.
No sign of illegitimacy.
So......

Suzie

[MonicaL]

The marriage in 1900 for David Wilson Nicol is to the daughter of Elspeth Jane b. 1863 isn't it?

Have you got David and Elsie in any census? See from this Elsie died in 1952:

David Wilson NICOL
b. 20 JUN 1877 Aberdeen, ABD, SCT
d. 24 MAY 1942 Aberdeen, ABD, SCT
Parents: George NICOL and Elizabeth MCALLISTER
Family:
Marriage: 7 FEB 1900 Aberdeen, ABD, SCT
Spouse: Elspet 'Elsie' Jane FINDLAY
b. 7 DEC 1879 Aberdeen, ABD, SCT
d. 18 FEB 1952 Aberdeen, ABD, SCT
Gender: Female
Parents John FINDLAY and Jane PIRIE
www.loadsofpeople.co.uk/ef_12592.html#8

Have you checked Elsie's death to see what it said about her parents?

Monica

[MonicaL]

So this is 1901:

David Wilson Nicol 29
Elsept Jane Findlay Nicol 21 b. Aberdeen
Maggie Bell Nicol 8 (this should be 3?)
George Nicol 5 Months

Address: 9 Albion Street, Aberdeen

What was the address showing in Maggie Bell Nicol's birth reg for her birth?

Monica

[Wendy2305]

The marriage in 1900 for David Wilson Nicol is to the daughter of Elspeth Jane b. 1863 isn't it?

Have you got David and Elsie in any census? See from this Elsie died in 1952:

David Wilson NICOL
b. 20 JUN 1877 Aberdeen, ABD, SCT
d. 24 MAY 1942 Aberdeen, ABD, SCT
Parents: George NICOL and Elizabeth MCALLISTER
Family:
Marriage: 7 FEB 1900 Aberdeen, ABD, SCT
Spouse: Elspet 'Elsie' Jane FINDLAY
b. 7 DEC 1879 Aberdeen, ABD, SCT
d. 18 FEB 1952 Aberdeen, ABD, SCT
Gender: Female
Parents John FINDLAY and Jane PIRIE
www.loadsofpeople.co.uk/ef_12592.html#8

Have you checked Elsie's death to see what it said about her parents?

Monica

According to this link  jane Findlay b 1863 is the Daughter of Alexander and Ann so the birth you found could be correct and her parents were not  William and Jane I think you are mixing up 2 Elspet Jane Findlay's