Author Topic: German Pork Butchers To Yorkshire  (Read 2643 times)

Offline SydneyDave

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German Pork Butchers To Yorkshire
« on: Friday 23 March 18 03:17 GMT (UK) »
Hello,
Trying to learn more about the emigration of German Pork Butchers to the north of England. Our subject arrived possibly 1865 as Weissman or Weismann,or even Wittman.Via Hull maybe.Subsequently became Whiteman....A later Whiteman was a manager at City Varieties Leeds and later another was  a publican in the city centre. There maybe connections in Pontefract,Castleford,and Chesterfield.
If anyone has a special interest in this subject we would love to know any tips as to tracing his arrival and or departure from Germany. There seemed to have been an exodus of butchers from that country over the middle decades of 19th Century.
Thank you !
Kind Regards,
David

Offline Ruskie

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Re: German Pork Butchers To Yorkshire
« Reply #1 on: Friday 23 March 18 03:22 GMT (UK) »
Hi David,

I remember this very long and ongoing thread about the subject:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=408853.0

If you have a spare few hours you may wish to peruse it. I hope you find something of interest.  :)

Added: If you enter "german pork butchers" into the search box (in the middle of the dark bar near the top of the page) there are other threads as well, though I did not delve into them to see if any might be relevant.

Offline SydneyDave

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Re: German Pork Butchers To Yorkshire
« Reply #2 on: Friday 23 March 18 04:58 GMT (UK) »
Thank you again Ruskie. Twice this week ! (Nurses in Burma)
Have started reading those thread pages. There will be something helpful on one of them.RootsChat friends so helpful.
Regards,
DAVID

Offline Berlin-Bob

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Re: German Pork Butchers To Yorkshire
« Reply #3 on: Friday 23 March 18 07:06 GMT (UK) »
Hi David,

there are a lot of German Pork Butcher (GPB) descendents here on RootsChat.
I collected a few topics abput them here:

Topic: RootsChat Topics: German Pork Butchers
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=509347.0

Happy Hunting !
Bob
Any UK Census Data included in this post is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk)


Offline kaz1056

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Re: German Pork Butchers To Yorkshire
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 28 July 18 14:03 BST (UK) »
My Ggrandad was John Grater b 24 feb 1879 shopfloch germany pork butcher came to huddersfield and was interred during ww1
Handley (Huddersfield, Thornhill, Bury)
Hutton-Cornish (Huddersfield)
Firth (Huddersfield, Kippax ?)
Whitehead (Sheffield, Huddersfield)
Grater (Dewsbury, Huddersfield, Germany)
Summerscales (Thornhill )

Online Rena

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Re: German Pork Butchers To Yorkshire
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 28 July 18 15:34 BST (UK) »
It wasn't just butchers who migrated from the several little Germanic states on the European mainland.  My ancestor was from the part of Europe given to James VI of Scotland when his grandaughter married (Kingdom of Hanover).  Idon't know about other parts of the European mainland but do know that every vicar in the KoH had to send a list of males who would reach their 20th birthday that year.  These males were conscripted either into the army or navy.   In the mid 19th century Prussia and Austria persuaded other provinces and princedoms to agree to one German state.  Those rulers who didn't comply set themselves on a war footing.  There are accounts that when Prussia invaded Hanover the Hanoverian soldiers who survived were conscripted into the Prussian army and received no wages for two years.

My ancestor was 10years and one day old when he and two other children arrived in England 1864 with his uncle who was a naval draft dodger.  I have no idea where they sailed from but I think they landed in Kings Lynn, Norfolk in "The Wash" and travelled around Britain as wandering musicians before eventually settling in Hull.    It was difficult travelling across the European mainland as you had to have permission to leave your area and all documentation was in triplicate.  Illegal migrants were listed as auswanderer and their names circulated.  I once saw a letter on the web written by an escapee who described how he tied a short plank of wood to each foot and "skied" along muddy ditches until he reached a port of safety.

The normal ports of Departure were Bremen/Bremerhaven and Hamburg where there were agents who would arrange passage to any destination and unfortunately I can't recall the name of another port that is now in the Netherlands.  Some people made their way eastwards and sailed from Denmark. There used to be a free to view Scandinavian passenger list website but unfortunately I can't locate it - maybe one of the large genealogy companies has bought it.  I suspect many people would have arrived in GB via a fishing trawler or cargo ship. 

All ships arriving in GB had to provide the Port Authorities with a list of passengers they carried.  These lists were kept for a few years and then destroyed (can't for the life of me remember whether it was 5 yrs or 10 yrs).  Any that were missed would have been destroyed in the London Blitz, although I once did see online a couple of passenger arrivals in Hull that had survived.

This familysearch list is useful for trying to establish the origins/distribution of surnames:-
https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Surname_Distribution_Maps

I like this one for Germany and it indicates two places where the surname Weissman was sited.  I wish I'd been researching that surname because when I entered my interest the surname flashed up all over the continent  ???

http://geogen.stoepel.net/

The value of talking to the older generation (who think they know nothing of value - but they do) and exchanging family stories with newly found cousins is immense.  For example my late mother's sister intimated that her grandfather was an Austrian and I even phoned the Austrian archives to no avail.  Then a cyberpal "cousin" sent me a newspaper cutting written by an old lady to a newspaper that mentioned the "draft dodger". I found her phone number and wonder of wonders it was one of my late mother's cousins b1918 who had remarried and moved away.  Trumpets sounded, stars burst all around me when she casually said she knew where her grandfather was born as she'd written it down 70 yrs ago in 1942 (!!!) when another cousin had told her and she'd kept the note in her address book; "hang on Rena and I'll read to you".  :o

 
Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy: MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell: Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar; Ross: Urray:Mackenzie:  Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell: Perthshire: Brown Ferguson: Wales: McCarthy, Thomas: England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Well(es). Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells;Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke

Offline SydneyDave

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Re: German Pork Butchers To Yorkshire
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 02 August 18 02:50 BST (UK) »
Thank you RENA for recent reply. More useful information. Yes the biggest hurdle is where our ancestor departed from, and most likely port of arrival. We think Hull is best guess. Complicated by a name change to be more Anglicised. Did they leave with their German family name and then adjust as advised once in UK ? All good fun but sometimes very frustrating.

Online Rena

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Re: German Pork Butchers To Yorkshire
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 02 August 18 03:51 BST (UK) »
Do you know the religion of your ancestors?  If they were Ev. Lutheran, I see that there is an Ev. Lutheran church in Leeds.  The Ev. Lutheran 19th century records even in England usually included the European mainland birthplaces and parents names relating to the parishioner.

Link to Leeds Ev. Lutheran Church:
http://www.lutheranchurch.co.uk/page/in+english
Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy: MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell: Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar; Ross: Urray:Mackenzie:  Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell: Perthshire: Brown Ferguson: Wales: McCarthy, Thomas: England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Well(es). Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells;Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke

Offline johnbhoy

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Re: German Pork Butchers To Yorkshire
« Reply #8 on: Monday 13 August 18 16:43 BST (UK) »
My Ggrandad was John Grater b 24 feb 1879 shopfloch germany pork butcher came to huddersfield and was interred during ww1

Do you know which camp he was interned in kaz? I had posted some useful information on the German Pork Butchers site

Johnbhoy
Scotland (Helensburgh, Glasgow, Banff, Campbelltown); MacKenzie, McKenzie, Donnachie, Donachie, McClafferty, Fee, Scullion, Cairns, McDonagh, McFinney,Chalmers,Stewart, McAllister

Ireland (Donegal-Rosses, Mullaghduff, Boyle Co Roscommon & other counties); Donachie, Finnigan, McGinley, Brennan, Sharkey, Boyle, Sweenie, Kearns, Balmartin, Martin, McDonald, Irvine

England (Carlisle); Ashbridge,Armstrong, Cavers, Wall, Dixon
England (Blackpool) Hall, Barker
Germany (Hohebach,Württemberg) Wahl