Author Topic: Brick wall please can anyone help me?  (Read 4500 times)

Offline Galium

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,091
    • View Profile
Re: Brick wall please can anyone help me?
« Reply #9 on: Saturday 24 March 18 17:49 GMT (UK) »
I think that you can probably rule out the Islip baptism.  The name in the original record looks more like Stope, and other baptisms for this couple have been transcribed as Stop, Stops or Stope.  Jacob Stops married at Islip in 1799.
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Galium

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,091
    • View Profile
Re: Brick wall please can anyone help me?
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 24 March 18 19:05 GMT (UK) »
A possible:

baptism at  St Peter, Drayton 27 September 1801
John natural son of Kisia Hoops

A tree on Ancestry has a Kezia Hope marrying John Martin at Shipton on Cherwell on 20 May 1811. This isn't linked to a source, and I can't find one.

However in 1841 there is a couple named John and Kezia Martin recorded in Shipton on Cherwell, and Kezia appears there in 1851 with a married daughter.
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline bucksboy

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,218
  • I'll thank you all now, in case I forget.
    • View Profile
Re: Brick wall please can anyone help me?
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 24 March 18 21:19 GMT (UK) »
A possible:

baptism at  St Peter, Drayton 27 September 1801
John natural son of Kisia Hoops

A tree on Ancestry has a Kezia Hope marrying John Martin at Shipton on Cherwell on 20 May 1811. This isn't linked to a source, and I can't find one.

However in 1841 there is a couple named John and Kezia Martin recorded in Shipton on Cherwell, and Kezia appears there in 1851 with a married daughter.

The marriage is right for John Martin & Keziah. (OxFHS-Marriage Index. .1538-1837).  He was widowed at the time.

Steve. :)
Ives, Stevens, Allen, Smith, King, Wooster, Elwood from Monks and Princes Risborough, Aylesbury, Wendover, Great Missenden, Bledlow, Horsenden, Saunderton, West Wycombe, High Wycombe, Lacey Green, Longwick, Illmer,  Hughenden, Prestwood, The Kimbles, Haslemere, Bradenham, Aston Clinton and more......!!  Plus a whole host of Oxfordshire areas.
Graham, Pimlott, Burgess from Cheshire and Lancashire area.
Acknowledgemets to http://www.bucksfhs.org.uk/  and  http://www.ofhs.org.uk/

Offline emjsw

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 646
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Brick wall please can anyone help me?
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 24 March 18 21:40 GMT (UK) »
Hello,
I am sorry I have not been able to reply sooner but I would like to pass on my thanks and gratitude to all of you gave up your time to help me, provide search ideas and to check and verify records.

Emeltom - thank you the dod fits well with John and the reg District for Shipton is Woodstock. Thanks also for listing the family from the census and for confirming Sarah Needle with the registration of Fanny.

Rena - thanks for this idea I hadn't thought of labour coming in to work on the canal. It was finished in 1790 so would tie in with new arrivals. Thanks also for the history of the name.

Katherine - thanks for the research ideas, they will be helpful in my searches. I couldn't find anything for Jacob and Mary on census docs or births of others.

Wivenhoe - sorry I didn't see your message earlier to list them.

Carol - thanks for the 1841 census data and for confirming Sarah's lifespan. Much appreciated.

Galium - thank you for looking at the original record, ancestry had only the transcription. Is there a website where you can look at baptism record documents please as this would be really handy for some other people I am looking for.
It made no sense as to why John would be born in Drayton and then travel to the other side of Oxford to Islip to be baptised, Islip is not by a canal. Interestingly Islip is 10 mins away from Bletchingdon where he got married but as they are Stops this rules them out.
Your suggestion that John's mum could be Kesia Hoops fits really well, around here the pronunciation of 'o' is 'oo' making Hope sound like Hoop. Also Kesia seems like an unusual name, it seemed to run in the family, John and John's sons Eli and William have a daughter named Kezia, possibly after John's mum. Shipton is and was a tiny place and the chances of this being a coincidence is really slim so it looks like you have solved the problem, thank you.

Steve - thank you for verifying the information.

Thanks again to all of you, I hope I haven't missed anyone in my reply :)

Sweetland (Chard/Yarcoombe/Honiton)
Garret/Stacey (Somerset)
Boultern/Boulton (Reading)
Crowther (Wolverhampton/Wednesbury/Birmingham)
Myres (Wolverhampton)
Palmer (Nottingham)
Cosby (Leighton Buzzard/Woodstock/Kidlington)
Hope (Oxford/Kidlington/Woodstock)
Williams (Yorkshire/Conisborough)
Draper (Bow Brickhill)
Draper Smith (Bow Brickhill/Woburn Sands)
Smith (Woburn Sands)


Offline wivenhoe

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,556
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Brick wall please can anyone help me?
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 24 March 18 23:56 GMT (UK) »
The purpose of identifying all the children born to John HOPE and Sarah NEEDLE is to follow them through later census records to find a possible intersection with people in the house on census night who might possibly be HOPE relatives.


Offline wivenhoe

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,556
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Brick wall please can anyone help me?
« Reply #14 on: Sunday 25 March 18 02:08 BST (UK) »

Census 1841  @ Shipton upon Cherwell
HOPE John  35y
HOPE Sarah  35y
HOPE George 14y
HOPE Keziah  9y
HOPE Jane 6y
HOPE Ann 4y
HOPE Fanny 1
NEEDLE Mary  65y      al born in county

Census 1861  @ Castle Eaton WILTS  (is this your family?)
HOPE George 35y                 b. Castle Eaton
HOPE Sarah 31y wife            b. Coswell WILTS
HOPE Ann    24y sister          b. Castle Eaton

Census 1871  @ Woodstock Oxfordshire
MITCHELL James    39y                          b. Woodstock   slater and plasterer
MITCHELL Keziah   39y                           b. Shipton
MITCHELL George W 6Y                          b. Wootton
MITCHELL Flora F 1y                               b. Woodstock
GADNEY Maria visitor w(idow)  45y          b.  Yacksley(?)
HOWSE Maria  servant 13y                      b. Shipton

Census 1871  @ Shipton on Cherwell
HOPE SARAH     68y    widow                  b. Bletchington
HOPE William     24y  unmarried labourer b. Shipton on Clerwell

Census 1871  @ Cogges
DRING James 37y  leather grounder     b, Coggs
DRING Fanny 30y                                b. Shipton
DRING Walter J H   4y                         b. Woodstock
DRING Fanny H   10mth                       b. Coggs

Census 1871  @ Woodstock   Higgrove Hill (?)
PUTNAM George      45y                       b. Roseway HERTS
PUTNAM Ann           33y                       b. Shipton on Clerwell
PUTNAM Jane A         3y                       b. Shipton on Clerwell
PUTNAM William  J    6mth                   b. Woodstock

Census 1881  @ The Village Shipton on Clerwell
HOPE Sarah          78y   widow                                       b. Bletchington
GADNEY Maris      55y    widow   formerly housekeeper    b. Yacksley
PUTNAM Fanny       8y    grand daughter                         b. Astrop Northhamptonshire


Census 1881 @  Bedford St Woodstock
MITCHELL Kezia   49y widow   housekeeper              b. Shipton on Clerwell
MITCHELL James   26y  son builder and publican       b. Woodstock
MITCHELL Jane     24y dau   dressmaker                   b. Woodstock
MITCHELL Alice     13y dau  app. dressmaker             b. Woodstock
MITCHELL Flora     10y dau scholar                           b. Woodstock

FreeBDM marriage   
DecQ 1860 Woodstock 3a / 1071
HOPE Ann  m. PUTNAM George

JunQ 1866 Woodstock 3a / 981
HOPE Fanny  m. DRING James

SepQ 1852  Oxford  3a / 765
HOPE Maria    m.  GADNEY Richard


George, Kezia, Jane, Ann, Fanny, Maria, William, Eli

You might expect to see a daughter Sarah and a son John as well?.

Offline Galium

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,091
    • View Profile
Re: Brick wall please can anyone help me?
« Reply #15 on: Sunday 25 March 18 09:54 BST (UK) »
Ancestry has images of Oxfordshire parish records here:

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=61056

but I think you need premium membership to see them.  If you do use parish record sets, it is sometimes more useful to use the browsing option rather than searching the index.  As an example, I found the John Hoops baptism at Drayton by looking through the pages of the register, and only saw later that the index shows him as 'John Nataral'.
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline emjsw

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 646
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Brick wall please can anyone help me?
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 27 March 18 00:09 BST (UK) »
The purpose of identifying all the children born to John HOPE and Sarah NEEDLE is to follow them through later census records to find a possible intersection with people in the house on census night who might possibly be HOPE relatives.

Ahh I see, thank you, it helps to place parents and other family members to verify the information you have already to cross reference it. That is great, I will make sure I do this from now on :)
Sweetland (Chard/Yarcoombe/Honiton)
Garret/Stacey (Somerset)
Boultern/Boulton (Reading)
Crowther (Wolverhampton/Wednesbury/Birmingham)
Myres (Wolverhampton)
Palmer (Nottingham)
Cosby (Leighton Buzzard/Woodstock/Kidlington)
Hope (Oxford/Kidlington/Woodstock)
Williams (Yorkshire/Conisborough)
Draper (Bow Brickhill)
Draper Smith (Bow Brickhill/Woburn Sands)
Smith (Woburn Sands)

Offline emjsw

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 646
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Brick wall please can anyone help me?
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday 27 March 18 00:13 BST (UK) »

Census 1841  @ Shipton upon Cherwell
HOPE John  35y
HOPE Sarah  35y
HOPE George 14y
HOPE Keziah  9y
HOPE Jane 6y
HOPE Ann 4y
HOPE Fanny 1
NEEDLE Mary  65y      al born in county

Census 1861  @ Castle Eaton WILTS  (is this your family?)
HOPE George 35y                 b. Castle Eaton
HOPE Sarah 31y wife            b. Coswell WILTS
HOPE Ann    24y sister          b. Castle Eaton

Census 1871  @ Woodstock Oxfordshire
MITCHELL James    39y                          b. Woodstock   slater and plasterer
MITCHELL Keziah   39y                           b. Shipton
MITCHELL George W 6Y                          b. Wootton
MITCHELL Flora F 1y                               b. Woodstock
GADNEY Maria visitor w(idow)  45y          b.  Yacksley(?)
HOWSE Maria  servant 13y                      b. Shipton

Census 1871  @ Shipton on Cherwell
HOPE SARAH     68y    widow                  b. Bletchington
HOPE William     24y  unmarried labourer b. Shipton on Clerwell

Census 1871  @ Cogges
DRING James 37y  leather grounder     b, Coggs
DRING Fanny 30y                                b. Shipton
DRING Walter J H   4y                         b. Woodstock
DRING Fanny H   10mth                       b. Coggs

Census 1871  @ Woodstock   Higgrove Hill (?)
PUTNAM George      45y                       b. Roseway HERTS
PUTNAM Ann           33y                       b. Shipton on Clerwell
PUTNAM Jane A         3y                       b. Shipton on Clerwell
PUTNAM William  J    6mth                   b. Woodstock

Census 1881  @ The Village Shipton on Clerwell
HOPE Sarah          78y   widow                                       b. Bletchington
GADNEY Maris      55y    widow   formerly housekeeper    b. Yacksley
PUTNAM Fanny       8y    grand daughter                         b. Astrop Northhamptonshire


Census 1881 @  Bedford St Woodstock
MITCHELL Kezia   49y widow   housekeeper              b. Shipton on Clerwell
MITCHELL James   26y  son builder and publican       b. Woodstock
MITCHELL Jane     24y dau   dressmaker                   b. Woodstock
MITCHELL Alice     13y dau  app. dressmaker             b. Woodstock
MITCHELL Flora     10y dau scholar                           b. Woodstock

FreeBDM marriage   
DecQ 1860 Woodstock 3a / 1071
HOPE Ann  m. PUTNAM George

JunQ 1866 Woodstock 3a / 981
HOPE Fanny  m. DRING James

SepQ 1852  Oxford  3a / 765
HOPE Maria    m.  GADNEY Richard


George, Kezia, Jane, Ann, Fanny, Maria, William, Eli

You might expect to see a daughter Sarah and a son John as well?.

Wow this is amazing, it must have taken ages, thanks so much for doing this for me.
Sweetland (Chard/Yarcoombe/Honiton)
Garret/Stacey (Somerset)
Boultern/Boulton (Reading)
Crowther (Wolverhampton/Wednesbury/Birmingham)
Myres (Wolverhampton)
Palmer (Nottingham)
Cosby (Leighton Buzzard/Woodstock/Kidlington)
Hope (Oxford/Kidlington/Woodstock)
Williams (Yorkshire/Conisborough)
Draper (Bow Brickhill)
Draper Smith (Bow Brickhill/Woburn Sands)
Smith (Woburn Sands)