Author Topic: Gilbert Welch  (Read 783 times)

Offline Pialba

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Gilbert Welch
« on: Wednesday 28 March 18 23:56 BST (UK) »
I have just recently discovered that my Gr Gr Gr Gr Grandfather was a Gilbert Welch who married a Margaret Thompson in Simonburn, I have found a bpatsim of a Gilbert Welch to a Thomas Welch and Agnes Hall in Roxburgh, Scotland. However I have not been able to find a marriage of Thomas and Agnes, nor any baptisms of Agnes Hall and Thomas Welch, It would be in the mid 1700s as Gilbert was born in 1765. There was an Agnes, born 1764, A Thomas 1775, and a Beatrix in 1768. All were baptised at Castleton, Roxburgh. Is there anywhere I might be able to find the births of Thomas and Agnes, and also marriage, and deaths.  Look forward to some hints.

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Offline ColC

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Re: Gilbert Welch
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 29 March 18 11:26 BST (UK) »
I note that the births are on freereg but no marriage for Thomas & Agnes. No marriage on family search in Scotland. I assume you have tried Scotland's People?

Sadly SP is down at the moment so I cannot check.

Colin
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Offline hdw

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Re: Gilbert Welch
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 29 March 18 20:21 BST (UK) »
I have just recently discovered that my Gr Gr Gr Gr Grandfather was a Gilbert Welch who married a Margaret Thompson in Simonburn, I have found a bpatsim of a Gilbert Welch to a Thomas Welch and Agnes Hall in Roxburgh, Scotland. However I have not been able to find a marriage of Thomas and Agnes, nor any baptisms of Agnes Hall and Thomas Welch, It would be in the mid 1700s as Gilbert was born in 1765. There was an Agnes, born 1764, A Thomas 1775, and a Beatrix in 1768. All were baptised at Castleton, Roxburgh. Is there anywhere I might be able to find the births of Thomas and Agnes, and also marriage, and deaths.  Look forward to some hints.

Snap! I have been researching my Welch or Welsh ancestors for many years, and I believe that my 4 x great-grandfather Thomas Welsh is the Thomas born in 1775 to Thomas Welsh and Agnes Hall. Like you, I have tried and failed to find a marriage for Thomas senior and Agnes. Their children were born at Bilhopefoot, which is in Castleton parish near Hermitage Castle, a pretty bleak location, I believe.
If you have looked at the Castleton OPR you will have noticed that in the entry for your Gilbert's birth in 1765, Christopher has been entered and scored out and Gilbert written in its place. My Thomas Welsh born in 1775 called his eldest son Christopher, so it seems to have been a name in the Welsh family. I think the name Gilbert may come from the Hall side.
Most of my information about my Thomas Welsh born in 1775 comes from a Wanted notice about him printed in the Edinburgh Courant and the Kelso Mail in July 1808. He had been a soldier in the Hopetoun Fencibles, he was coachman to Gilbert Chisholm Esq. of Stirches, Hawick, and at the Martinmas term of 1807 (November) he collected his last three months' wages and did a runner, clearing out with his fancy woman and deserting his wife (Jean Ballantyne) and four children. The procurator fiscal's office in Hawick were actively looking for him, and the last sighting of Thomas had been at Leith docks, with an unknown woman in tow, "seeking a passage for the North". Not my most respectable ancestor! He was aged around 34 in 1808, hence born circa 1774-5. Reddish-brown hair, stout build, about 5ft 6ins.
I would be interested in knowing more about your Gilbert.
Harry (in Edinburgh)



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Offline Pialba

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Re: Gilbert Welch
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 29 March 18 22:28 BST (UK) »
Hello Henry, Well, whata shock. As I said myself and other members of Gilberts descendants are still trying to sort things out. 2 cousins and myself are descended from Jane Welch, who was the son of Thomas and Agnes and was born in 1765. It seems he must have been a bit of a "lad" also, because I have found the baptism of a Christian daughter of Gilbert and Mary Davidson, baptised 6/10/1787, in Falstone,  and in June 1787 he had married a Margery/ Margaret Herdman, at Falstone, and had 2 children, John baptised 11/3/1788 and Ann baptised 4/3/1789 both at Falstone, then in 1793 he married Margaret Thompson 2/6/1793 at Simonburn, they had 2 daughters , Frances baptised 6/6/1794 and Jane 11 December 1796 in Simonburn. Both Gilbert and Margaret are buried in the Churchyard at St Peters Church in Newbrough, Northumberland. Jane had a son, Gilbert in 1816 to a Ralph Milburn and the wives of 2 people I have been in contact with are descendants of the son Gilbert who married Mary Hogarth. my 2 cousins in Northumberland and me in Australia are descended from Jane. In 1819 she married a John Parker, however in 1825 she gave birth to a son, Thomas whose reputed father was Nicholas Todd, a wealthy land and mine owner in Stonecroft which is near Newbrough. Look forward to the next episode of our "Illustrious" Welch family, Bev.

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Re: Gilbert Welch
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 29 March 18 22:31 BST (UK) »
Hello Colin, Thaks for your prompt reply, I had found Scotlands People was down, but when I tried this morning I see it is again up and running. Cousins of mine who live in Northumberland are going to try and have a look at another site they have found, it is for Border people I live in Australia and can only glean information from the LDS, Find my Past and Ancestry, so do rely on help from people and I do appreciate everything I get. I got a reply from a Harry who is a descendant of Thomas, Gilberts brother. So that has added another member to the Welch family. Thank you once again, Bev.

Offline Pialba

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Re: Gilbert Welch
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 29 March 18 22:44 BST (UK) »
Hi again Colin, Just checked Scotlands People however the registers start at 1856, which is far too late for what I want. Bev.

Offline ColC

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Re: Gilbert Welch
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 29 March 18 23:56 BST (UK) »
Hi Bev, thanks for your reply, when SP came back on line I did do a check without success but I think you may have looked at Statutory Registration which began in Scotland 1855, however church & other records begin earlier, especially church births & marriages.

Colin
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Offline hdw

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Re: Gilbert Welch
« Reply #7 on: Friday 30 March 18 09:30 BST (UK) »
My 4 x great-grandparents Thomas Welsh and Jean Ballantyne were married in 1795 in Glasgow. In different records the name is spelt Welsh, Welch and Walsh, but I'm using Welsh to be consistent. Descendants have all used that spelling.
Thomas and Jean had a daughter called Agnes in Hawick in 1797. If my theory is correct, she was called after Thomas's mother Agnes Hall.
In the 1795 marriage record in Glasgow, Jean Ballantyne is described as "Residenter in Glasgow", which just means she was living in Glasgow at the time of her marriage. She may be the Jean born in Glasgow in 1775 to James Ballantyne, weaver, and Christian McGregor.

Harry

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Re: Gilbert Welch
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 02 June 18 21:16 BST (UK) »
The Beatrix Welch or Welsh born in 1768 to Thomas Welsh and Agnes Hall - sister of Gilbert and Thomas - had an illegitimate daughter called Beatrix at Bilhopefoot, Castleton, in 1799. The baby was baptised on April 23, 1799. There is an entry in the Castleton OPR.

Beatrix born 1799 is probably the Beatrix Welsh married at Wilton in 1839 to James Park, stockingmaker in Hawick parish (Wilton is part of Hawick town). James and Beatrix are living in Wilton in the 1841 census. His age is given as 50, and hers as 45. The 1841 census is notoriously inaccurate about ages but they were obviously no spring chickens when they married in 1839.

Wilton is the parish where my ancestor Thomas Welsh(b.1775), brother of the elder Beatrix and uncle of the younger one, worked as a coachman before clearing out and deserting his family in 1807.

Harry