Can Somebody Help Please

[Janice M]

I am hoping that someone can help.

I am trying to find out the Maiden Name of Margaret "Elder". She was married to John Elder.

The only information I have is:

1901 CENSUS
PARISH   TOWNLAND   COUNTY               
Craigs   Craigs   Antrim               
Property                     
Number 88                     
SURNAME   FORNAME   RELA.   RELIG   AGE   OCC   MAR   BIRTH
SMYTH   Henry   Head   Presb.   44   Farm Lab.   M   Co. Antrim
SMYTH   Anne   Wife      39   House Wom.   M.   Co. Antrim
ELDER   Margaret   Mother-in-law      80      W   Co. Antrim
SMYTH   Robert   Son      17   Beetler   S   Scotland
SMYTH   Sarah   Daughter      15   Scholar   S   Co. Antrim
SMYTH   Isaac   Son      14   Beetler   S   Co. Antrim
SMYTH   Thomas   Son      11   Scholar   S   Co. Antrim
SMYTH   Jeanie   Daughter      9   Scholar   S   Co. Antrim
SMYTH   Susan   Daughter      6 or 7   Scholar   S   Co. Antrim
SMYTH   Nellie   Daughter      4   Scholar   S   Co. Antrim
SMYTH   Stewart   Son      2   Scholar   S   Co. Antrim

MARRIAGE DETAILS
19 July 1882 at Portglenone 1st Presbyterian Church
Henry Smith, full age, bachelor, labourer, residence Glasgow,
Father - Robert Smith - Farmer
Annie Elder, full age, spinster, residence Gortaheran,
Father - John Elder - Farmer
Witnesses - William Stirling and Martha Elder

DEATH DETAILS
John Elder 
April 1, 1898 in Craigs, Portglenone
Age  80
Occupation - Labourer
Informant - Ann Smyth - Daughter

DEATH DETAILS
Margaret Elder
May 29, 1904 in Craigs, Portglenone
Age 71 (?)
Informant - Henry Smith - Son-in-Law

We are almost certain that we have been tracing the right family, but without knowing Margaret "Elder's" maiden name, we can't be sure.

If it is the correct family, then there were at least 5 other children of John Elder and Margaret Stewart.
John - Born approximately 1848 - Died Glasgow, Scotland
Robert - Born approximately 1850 - Died Glasgow, Scotland
Isaac - Born approximately 1856 - Died Unknown
Joseph - Born approximately 1858 - Died Glasgow Scotland
Thomas - Born approximately 1860 - Died Glasgow Scotland

We do not know when or where John Elder and Margaret Stewart were married and researchers previously hired, have been unable to find anything.

Is there any way of finding out Margaret's maiden name, as Anne would have been born before Civil Registration of 1864.

As quite a bit of money has been spent on researching this family, it would be nice to know that we are on the right track.

Any help at all would be appreciated.

[Jenny Wood]

Janice,

Can you tell us what wrong marriages you have for John Elder....e. John Elder married to someone else and why you think that they are wrong.

I did a quick search on the free database on the Ulster Historic Foundation site for btoh Margaret Stewart and John Elder.

For John Elder there is only one in the time period and that was in Antrim in 1847

There are several for Margaret Stewart in both Down and Antrim around 1847, 1848

http://www.ancestryireland.co.uk/index.php?PHPSESSID=&new_login=

I'd be reluctant to suggest paying for the details simply on this search as you would need to pay 10 pounds to look at 5 records.  Particularly as you can't see the parish to confirm it would be right but it does suggest that there is a John Elder who married in 1847 in Antrim.

Can you confirm where the eldest supposed child John is born that could be where the marriage took place - maybe someone has access to that parishes records. 

Jenny.

[Janice M]

Jenny

Thank you for replying. Unfortunately, the civil marriage that you found in 1847 for John Elder, was to a Nancy Simpson. We are looking for the marriage of John Elder to Margaret Stewart.

On all of the marriage and death details of family found so far, it lists the maiden name of Margaret as "Stewart". All of the marriages of the sons took place in Glasgow, Scotland and the only information of where any of them were born, was listed as Antrim, Ireland, with no actual birth dates. No information that we have, has pointed to any town at all.

The only hint at any town is in the marriage of Annie Elder and Henry Smith who were married in Portglenone at the 1st Presbyterian Church. We think that Annie could be the sister of the other children listed, because of the names of her parents, (John and Margaret), as well as her children. (One child of Annie's is named Isaac and another is named Stewart.) The deaths of Annie's parents would also coincide with the information that we already have on the deaths and marriages of the male Elder's in Scotland, (saying whether or not a parent is deceased). 

We had been hoping that Annie's marriage details would show her mother's maiden name, but unfortunately, it only mentioned her father.

We are assuming that John Elder and Margaret Stewart were married 1846 or earlier, as we have been unable to find any marriage for them in 1847 or later.

Although we are almost certain that Annie is related; in order to be sure, we would need to find her mother's maiden name.

The earliest date listed for any town that they may have lived, was:
1882 - (July 19th) - Gortaheran (Annie's wedding)
1889 - (April 1st) thru 1904 - (May 29th) - Craigs (John Elder's death, 1901 Census & Margaret Elder's death)

Sorry, but this is all the information that we have.

Janice