Author Topic: Any information on the birth/baptism of Johnathan Smith (1840?)  (Read 2510 times)

Offline timmis1

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 209
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Any information on the birth/baptism of Johnathan Smith (1840?)
« on: Friday 30 March 18 23:07 BST (UK) »
I am trying to find a baptism/birth registration for Johnathan Smith
He married Emma Roberts  (born abt 1842 in Thurstaston Cheshire) on 15th June  1862 at Our Lady & St Nicholas & St Anne Liverpool
His father`s name is given as Richard Smith a Labourer
I have been unable to find a baptism on free reg nor a birth registration however today on the free trial of ancestry I did come across a record for a Johnathan Smith born Wallasey Cheshire 1840
Is anyone able to shed any light on this record of 1840?
I have asked other questions about this person in 2016

Offline CaroleW

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 71,040
  • Barney 1993-2004
    • View Profile
Re: Any information on the birth/baptism of Johnathan Smith (1840?)
« Reply #1 on: Friday 30 March 18 23:29 BST (UK) »
You have posted on the Lancashire board but say the baptism was Cheshire?

No info given as to what birthplace is shown on census entries for him or what birthyear

Your 2016 thread ran to 5 pages so to avoid any duplication of efforts I will ask the moderator to merge this post with the 2016 one

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=744300.0
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Carlin (Ireland & Liverpool) Doughty & Wright (Liverpool) Dick & Park (Scotland & Liverpool)

Offline rosie99

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 41,919
  • ALFIE 2009 - 2021 (Rosbercon Sky's the Limit)
    • View Profile
Re: Any information on the birth/baptism of Johnathan Smith (1840?)
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 31 March 18 08:52 BST (UK) »
however today on the free trial of ancestry I did come across a record for a Johnathan Smith born Wallasey Cheshire 1840
Is anyone able to shed any light on this record of 1840?


You don't indicate what sort of record this was, what 'collection' does it appear in
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Online BumbleB

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,267
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Any information on the birth/baptism of Johnathan Smith (1840?)
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 31 March 18 09:23 BST (UK) »
6 September 1840 - St Hilary, Wallasey

Johnathan, son of Samuel (Labourer) and Mary Smith of Poulton

(It's a disgusting image - via FindMyPast :-X )
Transcriptions and NBI are merely finding aids.  They are NOT a substitute for original record entries.
Remember - "They'll be found when they want to be found" !!!
If you don't ask the question, you won't get an answer.
He/she who never made a mistake, never made anything.
Archbell - anywhere, any date
Kendall - WRY
Milner - WRY
Appleyard - WRY


Offline rolnora

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,945
    • View Profile
Re: Any information on the birth/baptism of Johnathan Smith (1840?)
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 31 March 18 09:29 BST (UK) »
There is a baptism record at Woodchurch 18 July 1841
Jonathan Smith
Parents Richard and Ann
Richard a Labourer
Abode Barnston.
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline rolnora

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,945
    • View Profile
Re: Any information on the birth/baptism of Johnathan Smith (1840?)
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 31 March 18 09:53 BST (UK) »
Another baptism at Woodchurch
John Smith 29 March 1840
Parents Richard and Ann
Richard a Labourer
Abode Oxton.

Skimming through your previous post there is a post from Heywood [reply 3 ]
Giving the 1851 and 1861 census.
So could these two baptisms tie in with those records with Jonathan and John being different people?
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline timmis1

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 209
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Any information on the birth/baptism of Johnathan Smith (1840?)
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 31 March 18 11:49 BST (UK) »
Thank you very much everyone who has responded so far, Rolnora`s  baptism information would appear to be spot on in my opinion, as there are a couple of things that tie it in with the information I already have.

1 The father`s name is Richard as given on the marriage details to Emma Roberts
2 The fathers occupation is labourer as in Johnathan`s marriage details
2 The baptism in Woodchurch is in the area of Birkinhead, Emma his wife was born in Thurstaston

I presume the first Johnathan Smith (found by Rolnora) that was baptised however died at some point and hence Richard & Ann called there next son Johnathan also.

I have looked for the surviving Johnathan in the 1851 census and found him living at what looks like No2 Halls Court Oxton Cheshire with

Richard Smith 34
Ann Smith 37
James Smith 12
William Smith 8
George Smith 6
Richard Smith 4

I have also found him in the 1861 census in Oxton again with

Richard Smith  44
Ann Smith 46
Richard Smith 15
Thomas Smith 7

It is interesting that he has a sibling called William as Johnathan has a grandson called William born around 1896 in Oldham to his daughter Emma Smith, so it is starting me to think that this is "our"  Johnathan Smith

However I can`t find a plausible death date for him, as mentioned in my post of 2016 by 1871 his wife(Emma ne Roberts)  is living in Bury, Lancashire with her daughter but not with him.
I do not know where he has gone.
Emma his wife eventually hooks up with a Michael Fanning and she is with him in the 1881 Census both of them moving to Oldham and Michael dieing there.
However I have never found a marriage record for these two(Michael Fanning & Emma) , it makes me wonder if Johnathan just deserted Emma, or Emma & Michael just didn`t marry for what ever reason even though their children used his name in subsequent census.

Offline heatherjulie

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,697
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Any information on the birth/baptism of Johnathan Smith (1840?)
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 31 March 18 17:00 BST (UK) »
One to consider

1861
Micklehurst
James Kinder Head 30 Farmer
Mary Kinder   28
John Kinder   5
Hartley Kinder   5/12
Mary Davis   20
Johnathan Smith Servant 40 born Barnston Cheshire Ag Labourer *
Jerimiah Willis   14
Richard Smith   Servant 16 born Birkenhead Cowman
Henry Robinson   15
William Hayle   14
RG9/3086/

* Somebody called Puddington 40 has put a correction on one site to say that his age was 20 not 40

Offline timmis1

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 209
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Any information on the birth/baptism of Johnathan Smith (1840?)
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 31 March 18 17:57 BST (UK) »
Thanks Heatherjulie

Yes the John & Richard could be "the" brothers but Micklehurst seems to be near Mossely which is near Ashton Under Lyne, I think I will stick with the one where he is living in Oxton in 1861  I just need something to connect him to Emma Roberts born in Thurstaston.
However I only have Emma Roberts in Bury  for the 1861 census living as a servant
The witness of the marriage where a Jane & William Hughes, I wonder if there is some connection between the families there, I have had a look at a few censuses and Jane doesn`t seem to be her  sister but I don`t think Johnathan has any sisters, so I don`t know how these witnesses can help.
Now I have some good ideas as to where Johnathan was born I would like to be able to link him to Emma Roberts better and find out when he died should I start a new thread or keep this one open?