Author Topic: Enlistment/Transfer dates from Service Numbers  (Read 1251 times)

Offline SmallTownGirl

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Enlistment/Transfer dates from Service Numbers
« on: Sunday 01 April 18 16:08 BST (UK) »
Hi peeps

Is there a website that details service numbers -v- dates, so that it's possible to see (even approximately) when men enlisted and/or transferred between regiments, please?

Thanks
STG
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Offline MaxD

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Re: Enlistment/Transfer dates from Service Numbers
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 01 April 18 16:47 BST (UK) »
Short (unsatisfactory) answer is no.

Pre-war and some later enlistments are covered quite comprehensively in http://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.co.uk/ (see Site Index tab)

I suspect you have someone moving between regiments and hoping the numbers will give a date.  There are ways of sometimes getting an idea by looking at numbers adjacent to your subject and then hoping to find near numbers in service records that have survived or Silver War badge records which give enlistment dates. Remember too, if we are talking about a territorial enlistment, they (nearly all) were given new numbers in 1917 which adds to the fun/complications so it isn't an exact science.
Try posting your subject's details and the geniuses on this board may be able to ferret something out.  I shall try also.

MaxD
I am Zoe Northeast, granddaughter of Maximilian Double.
 
It is with great difficulty I share with you that in the early hours of 07 August 2021, Maximilian passed away unexpectedly but peacefully.

With deep sadness,
Zoe



Double  Essex/Suffolk
Randle/Millington Warwicks
Sokser/Klingler Austria/Croatia

Offline SmallTownGirl

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Re: Enlistment/Transfer dates from Service Numbers
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 01 April 18 16:54 BST (UK) »
Okey cokey, here goes:

Edwin Harrison : Medal card shows
202987 in the Leicestershire Regiment
235108 in the North Staffs Regiment

Fingers crossed  ;D

But I was thinking that rather than me asking all the time, it would be nice if I could do some myself  ;D

STG

Edited to say: Tried the link that MaxD sent, but didn't find great understanding there, or, really, any understanding at all.   :-[     HELP !



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Offline jim1

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Re: Enlistment/Transfer dates from Service Numbers
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 01 April 18 18:12 BST (UK) »
Unfortunately his medal Roll doesn't state which Leics. Batt. he was in however it does state 8//N.Staffs.
Not what you're looking for but a start.
What's his DOB ?
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/


Offline SmallTownGirl

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Re: Enlistment/Transfer dates from Service Numbers
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 01 April 18 18:43 BST (UK) »
dob = 27 July 1882

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Offline jim1

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Re: Enlistment/Transfer dates from Service Numbers
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 01 April 18 18:44 BST (UK) »
Looking at others with numbers around his I find 235106 N/Staffs. attested 7/12/1915. He is 1 of 10 I've found with numbers close to your man's & they all attested Dec. 1915. It's possible they've gone in under the Derby Scheme.
There are some oddities:
235058 attested 18/2/16.
235066 on 23/7/16 & 235043 on 7/6/16. I haven't had a close look at these to see if they were with another Regt. first.
As your man transferred from the Leics. Regt. it might be worth looking at them first.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline jim1

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Re: Enlistment/Transfer dates from Service Numbers
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 01 April 18 18:55 BST (UK) »
In addition to the above the Medal Roll tells us that a large number of Leics. men were transferred to the 8/N/Staffs.
235106 went on 2/5/17. Having previously been in the Leics. Regt.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline MaxD

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Re: Enlistment/Transfer dates from Service Numbers
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 01 April 18 18:58 BST (UK) »
I understand what you are saying but I am in some difficulty trying to explain something that isn't a straightforward process and involves trying to find clues in all the records that do exist.

You do need to find out what battalions he served with within each regiment, that will be found, most of the time, on the medal rolls.  In his case, we find the medal roll says he was in 8th Battalion N Staffs but doesn't give his Leicester battalion.  It does show something interesting worth looking at.  A number of Leicesters with adjacent numbers who may have joined about the same time are transferred to the 8th N Staffs.  (The may is because each battalion ran its own numbering system so, simplistically, Edwin is given 202987 in x battalion while the joining rate in y battalion is different and 202988 is allocated to Bloggs weeks late/earlier so if we find Bloggs record the adjacent numbers only works if they are the same battalion.  We need to look also at the 1917 re-numbering, http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/a-soldiers-life-1914-1918/renumbering-of-the-territorial-force-in-1917/renumbering-the-tf-infantry-in-1917/.  202987 is in the 4th Battalion Leicesters block so tentatively that was his Leicester battalion but only after the 1917 renumbering to be sure.

A number of moves are now possible:  are there any service records or Silver War Badge Records or CWGC records for men of the Leicesters with "near numbers". 

From the above, the SWB records have a Leicester man with the number 202984 and who enlisted in Feb 1917 so one might think he enlisted very close to Edwin.  Not so as other records for the man show that it was a new 1917 number so we can only say they got their new numbers at the same time.  So far, given that Edwin has no earlier number in the Leicesters on his card, perhaps he enlisted in March 1917.  ASgain that doesn't work because only the meadl card only has info about the overseas service and he could, for example, have joined in 1916 with number xyx, been renumbered that then gone overseas.  Drawing a blank so far.

Next would be a search to find clues to an influx of men from the Leicesters to the 8th N Staffs. The 2/4th Battalion Leicesters were reduced to cadre strength in May 1918, perhaps he moved to the N Staffs then.  Over to the war diaries.  While both battalion's diaries show men leaving and coming at about the same time (Feb-May 18), I find no specific mention of Leicesters to N Staffs. 

At this stage I begin to flag.  If this all looks like thrashing around in all directions that is exacty what it is, hopng that a clue will appear somewhere that can be stood up as fact.

As you know, there are some knowledgeable folk on here who may turn up and give you a clearer steer, what none of them will do, I venture to suggest, is say - follow these two steps and all will be revealed, there are simply too many variables.

I must admit to not being able to give you dates for his enlistment/transfer, dates that is that I can prove.  I await with interest to see if others can suggest other ways of solving the puzzle.

MaxD

I am leaving this post as it is having seen jim1's post which you can see is treading the same path as I am!

I am Zoe Northeast, granddaughter of Maximilian Double.
 
It is with great difficulty I share with you that in the early hours of 07 August 2021, Maximilian passed away unexpectedly but peacefully.

With deep sadness,
Zoe



Double  Essex/Suffolk
Randle/Millington Warwicks
Sokser/Klingler Austria/Croatia

Offline SmallTownGirl

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Re: Enlistment/Transfer dates from Service Numbers
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 01 April 18 19:02 BST (UK) »
In addition to the above the Medal Roll tells us that a large number of Leics. men were transferred to the 8/N/Staffs.
235106 went on 2/5/17. Having previously been in the Leics. Regt.

Oooo!  Where/how does it tell us that, please?

Am really doing my best to understand  :-[

Edited to say: Gotta go now.  Back tomorrow.  Thanks peeps  STG :-*
Always looking for GOODWINS in Berkshire :)