Author Topic: John Duffy, born Roscommon, Ireland 1861  (Read 7166 times)

Offline Real Lee History

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John Duffy, born Roscommon, Ireland 1861
« on: Sunday 01 April 18 23:36 BST (UK) »
I am trying to find out more information to extend my Paternal Fathers line.

My father was youngest of 6 and knows very little about his ancestry line. Whilst I am researching all family ancestry, I am keen to gain information to pass to him while we can.

My great grandfather, John Duffy is the stumbling block.

Background

My Grandfather is Joseph Duffy born 27th Feb 1893 (exact known). He was one of eight children I believe and their father (my great grandfather) is father to all. Records show he had 2 wives. First Mary (probably nee Hawthorn) - marriage citation 1882 Lancashire, England , followed by Elizabeth (born 1872) and USA born - marriage ciatation 1898 Lancashire, England.

Mary from loose family knowledge may have been illiterate and little is known of which wife had which child. My mother recalls that Joseph mentioned both on occasions to the fact he found one more amiable than the other - so I am of the belief both were around or at least met Joseph (born 1893). Neither wife deceased date is known at the moment.

John Duffy on census:

1881 Salford, Manchester, England shows aged 21 Boarder Labourer and born Roscommon Ireland

1891 Manchester, England shows aged 30, Head, Painter and born Yorkshire along with Mary as wife.

1901 Manchester, England shows aged 37, Head, Street Labourer born Ireland - now with Elizabeth as wife aged 29.

1911 Manchester, England aged 52, Head, Groundsman born Loughlynn, Roscommon, Ireland

I am finding it difficult to locate a credible birth certificate to view or take details from. Many John Duffy's born around the time under Roscommon searches state 'Mayo' ?

Can anyone with better skills than mine suggest some logic to the confusing Census data and perhaps knowledge of Birth Certificates showing parents of John Duffy born Loughlynn, Roscommon (from the census' the year is confusing but I am drawn towards 1861 +/- 1yr)

Thanks


PS. Without wishing to influence above findings, I have come across an 1871 Census which has a John Duffy in the household of a Catherine Duffy (Head) aged 32. The John is aged 9, suggests born County Roscommon and at the time of the survey living in Dewsbury, Yorkshire.

RG10/ 4601/ 63 p 11

Clutching at straws I'm wondering if this is the John and hence why some census read Ireland, one Yorkshire for birthplace?
Loughglinn Ireland : Duffy (Paternal Line)
London: Baylis(s), Maynard, Dutton, Smith, Ward, Garner, Down
Brighton: Galliers, Hilton
Devon (Moretonhampstead): Dingle, Smale
Essex (North): Garrad, Hull, Bishop, Partridge, Pepper
Manchester: Duffy, Hawthorn(e), Holyoak(e)
Shropshire Wellington: Vaughan, Foreman
Suffolk: Partridge, Minter
Wales (Monmouthshire): Powell, Mayber(r)y

Offline Sinann

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Re: John Duffy, born Roscommon, Ireland 1861
« Reply #1 on: Monday 02 April 18 00:21 BST (UK) »
There are no birth Certs before 1864, so you are looking for a baptism.
John Duffy isn't an uncommon name, but you have Loughglynn as a clue.
If he was RC I would start with the parish records
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0557

Note the parish is on the border of Roscommon and Mayo which may explain why Mayo is coming up in your searches.

Offline Real Lee History

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Re: John Duffy, born Roscommon, Ireland 1861
« Reply #2 on: Monday 02 April 18 08:58 BST (UK) »
There are no birth Certs before 1864, so you are looking for a baptism.
John Duffy isn't an uncommon name, but you have Loughglynn as a clue.
If he was RC I would start with the parish records
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0557

Note the parish is on the border of Roscommon and Mayo which may explain why Mayo is coming up in your searches.

Thank you Sinann

I have looked at the parish records Microfilm this morning for Baptism 1861 and covered to 1867 (thinking there might also be a brother or sister noted) but sadly nothing.

Certainly Joseph (my grandfather) & family downwards are RC so it was a fair shout he would be in there (if registered at all), however not a certainty I suppose.

Understand why Mayo would be coming up on searches now - thanks - presume I can't discount the Mayo reference as it appears the John Duffy I seek had differing views on his own age and place of birth, so what chance others :)

I will continue to look but really grateful for your input
Loughglinn Ireland : Duffy (Paternal Line)
London: Baylis(s), Maynard, Dutton, Smith, Ward, Garner, Down
Brighton: Galliers, Hilton
Devon (Moretonhampstead): Dingle, Smale
Essex (North): Garrad, Hull, Bishop, Partridge, Pepper
Manchester: Duffy, Hawthorn(e), Holyoak(e)
Shropshire Wellington: Vaughan, Foreman
Suffolk: Partridge, Minter
Wales (Monmouthshire): Powell, Mayber(r)y

Offline heywood

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Re: John Duffy, born Roscommon, Ireland 1861
« Reply #3 on: Monday 02 April 18 09:06 BST (UK) »
Hello,

I think you need better evidence before you can search for John’s birth.

His father’s name should be shown on his marriage certificates. Do you have that information?
You mention the two mothers - you can find mother’s maiden name on the GRO site https://www.gro.gov.uk/ so you could work out which woman had which children.
Having said that, I am having some difficulty trying to do this.

You have mentioned the various censuses.
1901 3752/56/20  shows children born before 1891: James 16yrs; John 14yrs and Charles 12yrs
1891 3243/104 shows just John and Mary Ann Duffy - is that the one you have?

Heywood
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline heywood

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Re: John Duffy, born Roscommon, Ireland 1861
« Reply #4 on: Monday 02 April 18 09:24 BST (UK) »
I have found the Duffy/Hawthorn births (or some) now on GRO Salford. :)
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Offline Real Lee History

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Re: John Duffy, born Roscommon, Ireland 1861
« Reply #5 on: Monday 02 April 18 09:57 BST (UK) »
Hello,

I think you need better evidence before you can search for John’s birth.

His father’s name should be shown on his marriage certificates. Do you have that information?
You mention the two mothers - you can find mother’s maiden name on the GRO site https://www.gro.gov.uk/ so you could work out which woman had which children.
Having said that, I am having some difficulty trying to do this.

You have mentioned the various censuses.
1901 3752/56/20  shows children born before 1891: James 16yrs; John 14yrs and Charles 12yrs
1891 3243/104 shows just John and Mary Ann Duffy - is that the one you have?

Heywood

Thanks Heywood

I appreciate any guidance as relatively new to searching ancestry. Wasn't aware of GRO site information searching opportunities so, having opened your link, will register this morning and see if I can work it out to give away its secrets (or at least Johns children's birth mother guidance).

Census - yes 1901 and 1891. I also have 1911 but just shows the family children John (16), Mary (14) and Henry (11) living with John and Elizabeth and the older children in other places having boarded or Head of home.

Thanks for helping :)
Loughglinn Ireland : Duffy (Paternal Line)
London: Baylis(s), Maynard, Dutton, Smith, Ward, Garner, Down
Brighton: Galliers, Hilton
Devon (Moretonhampstead): Dingle, Smale
Essex (North): Garrad, Hull, Bishop, Partridge, Pepper
Manchester: Duffy, Hawthorn(e), Holyoak(e)
Shropshire Wellington: Vaughan, Foreman
Suffolk: Partridge, Minter
Wales (Monmouthshire): Powell, Mayber(r)y

Offline gaffy

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Re: John Duffy, born Roscommon, Ireland 1861
« Reply #6 on: Monday 02 April 18 10:21 BST (UK) »
John Duffy is a really common name combination for the era and (Roscommon / Mayo) area, so just to note for now this Loughlynn RC parish baptism possibility, while you track back on the English records.

it's for a John baptised on 11 May 1862 for parents John ?uffy and Catherine Finn, sponsors Patrick Gallagher and Honor Finn (left page, 11th entry down)
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633960#page/55/mode/1up

?uffy is most probably Duffy, a couple with those names had other children baptised in this parish, Patrick 1854, Catherine 1855 and this example - Margaret on 12 February 1860 (left page, 14th entry down):
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633960#page/45/mode/1up

And there was a marriage in same parish for a couple with those names on 12 February 1852 (left page, top entry):
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633960#page/69/mode/1up


Offline heywood

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Re: John Duffy, born Roscommon, Ireland 1861
« Reply #7 on: Monday 02 April 18 10:22 BST (UK) »
There are some daughters shown on GRO for mmn Hassall so perhaps they died but that seems at odds with 1911.
You will need to list all possibilities  :)

I am still puzzled re 1891 census.
The marriage for John Duffy and Mary Hawthorn was 1882 and there are children born shortly and continuing.
1891 shows Mary Ann Duffy b Somerset and John b Yorkshire and no children with them  :-\
There is a Mary Ellen Hawthorn b Manchester but I can’t see the family after 1881.

You do need to get those marriage certificates to make  sure you are on the right track and then if you have John’s father’s name it may help in your Loughglynn search.

gaffy’s finds are worth noting too - look promising but you need father’s name.
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Real Lee History

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Re: John Duffy, born Roscommon, Ireland 1861
« Reply #8 on: Monday 02 April 18 10:33 BST (UK) »
John Duffy is a really common name combination for the era and (Roscommon / Mayo) area, so just to note for now this Loughlynn RC parish baptism possibility, while you track back on the English records.

it's for a John baptised on 11 May 1862 for parents John ?uffy and Catherine Finn, sponsors Patrick Gallagher and Honor Finn (left page, 11th entry down)
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633960#page/55/mode/1up

?uffy is most probably Duffy, a couple with those names had other children baptised in this parish, Patrick 1854, Catherine 1855 and this example - Margaret on 12 February 1860 (left page, 14th entry down):
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633960#page/45/mode/1up

And there was a marriage in same parish for a couple with those names on 12 February 1852 (left page, top entry):
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633960#page/69/mode/1up

Gaffy - I will take a look at the links and suggestions. Am excited with the Catherine Finn piece as I noted in my original request post, I found an 1871 census (online) with a John Duffy as 9 year old son on a Catherine Duffy (Head) (no father noted) and the John census confusion with Yorkshire could fit in perhaps.  But reading that census as I type - its shows a brother William (11yrs) then John (9yrs), James (5yrs) and Patrick (3yrs) but no Margaret.

I will find & print what you have highlighted as is closest to an answer at the moment. I feel I need to find a 'linking' piece of confirmation though before dead cert !?

Thank you for all your work on this so far :)
Loughglinn Ireland : Duffy (Paternal Line)
London: Baylis(s), Maynard, Dutton, Smith, Ward, Garner, Down
Brighton: Galliers, Hilton
Devon (Moretonhampstead): Dingle, Smale
Essex (North): Garrad, Hull, Bishop, Partridge, Pepper
Manchester: Duffy, Hawthorn(e), Holyoak(e)
Shropshire Wellington: Vaughan, Foreman
Suffolk: Partridge, Minter
Wales (Monmouthshire): Powell, Mayber(r)y