John Duffy, born Roscommon, Ireland 1861

[Real Lee History]

There are some daughters shown on GRO for mmn Hassall so perhaps they died but that seems at odds with 1911.
You will need to list all possibilities 

I am still puzzled re 1891 census.
The marriage for John Duffy and Mary Hawthorn was 1882 and there are children born shortly and continuing.
1891 shows Mary Ann Duffy b Somerset and John b Yorkshire and no children with them 
There is a Mary Ellen Hawthorn b Manchester but I can’t see the family after 1881.

You do need to get those marriage certificates to make  sure you are on the right track and then if you have John’s father’s name it may help in your Loughglynn search.

gaffy’s finds are worth noting too - look promising but you need father’s name.

Agree re Father's name. I will look at GRO - I presume Order Certificates then Search to locate at this stage. ?

In the 1891 Census Mary does show as Mary Ann but I have no proof so could be Mary Ellen. Again I understand she signed with a cross 'X' as illiterate so perhaps a wedding certificate would confirm the 'right Mary' in this respect?

I didn't and don't understand the dates to the census' or childrens births Nor John's age givens on census' which are never in line? I also wonder about my Grandad (Joseph) having recollection of both mums as that would suggest Mary didn't die before Elizabeth arrived ?

Thank you very much for talking this through with me and helping. Appreciate it

[heywood]

Agree re Father's name. I will look at GRO - I presume Order Certificates then Search to locate at this stage. ?

Yes, you can order from the same site but not a pdf, which is cheaper - only births/deaths. Marriage certs are £9.50, I think.

In the 1891 Census Mary does show as Mary Ann but I have no proof so could be Mary Ellen. Again I understand she signed with a cross 'X' as illiterate so perhaps a wedding certificate would confirm the 'right Mary' in this respect?

Has someone seen the certificate to know this information? What else is shown?

I didn't and don't understand the dates to the census' or childrens births Nor John's age givens on census' which are never in line? I also wonder about my Grandad (Joseph) having recollection of both mums as that would suggest Mary didn't die before Elizabeth arrived ?

There is a possible death in 1894 for Mary Duffy, 38yrs, Manchester

Thank you very much for talking this through with me and helping. Appreciate it

[heywood]

Forgot to post re 1871 4601/63 /11

John Duffy with mother Catherine and siblings in Dewsbury. According to GRO, mother’s maiden name looks to be Hanahin/Henahin

[Real Lee History]

Agree re Father's name. I will look at GRO - I presume Order Certificates then Search to locate at this stage. ?

Yes, you can order from the same site but not a pdf, which is cheaper - only births/deaths. Marriage certs are £9.50, I think.

Ok, I will look around site as new to me.

In the 1891 Census Mary does show as Mary Ann but I have no proof so could be Mary Ellen. Again I understand she signed with a cross 'X' as illiterate so perhaps a wedding certificate would confirm the 'right Mary' in this respect?

Has someone seen the certificate to know this information? What else is shown?

No just hearsay from my own mother in order to try to help. I will need to see if I can get a marriage certificate and just thought, if it shows an inability to write on Mary's behalf, it fits. it amazes me that my Dad has no recollection or knowledge passed down but he is of a different era.

I didn't and don't understand the dates to the census' or childrens births Nor John's age givens on census' which are never in line? I also wonder about my Grandad (Joseph) having recollection of both mums as that would suggest Mary didn't die before Elizabeth arrived ?

There is a possible death in 1894 for Mary Duffy, 38yrs, Manchester

I would, in a way, prefer this to be the outcome. Again hearsay confuses re my Grandad apparently stating he preferred one to the other, which indicates knowledge of both - even to the youngest age that must be 3 or 4yrs for memories and my granddad was born 1893. However beginning to learn not to trust hearsay

Thank you very much for talking this through with me and helping. Appreciate it

[heywood]

Good luck and just ask for any help.

As has been said, Duffy is common around those parts -my grandmother was a Duffy but remained in Mayo so easier to follow.

It is frustrating re those boys in 1891. They are well hidden. 

[heywood]

For information

Lancashire opc http://www.lan-opc.org.uk doesn’t have many Catholic records but is adding to them.

There are two records - In Latin

Randolphus Duffy baptised 10th July 1898 parents John and Alice  formerly Hassal
Godparents John Edward Hassal and Sabina Monaghan

39th July 1899 same church
Gertrude Duffy - mother now Elizabeth
Godparent John Edward Hassall and Mary Ann Cunnliffe

I have anglicised the names.

[Real Lee History]

John Duffy is a really common name combination for the era and (Roscommon / Mayo) area, so just to note for now this Loughlynn RC parish baptism possibility, while you track back on the English records.

it's for a John baptised on 11 May 1862 for parents John ?uffy and Catherine Finn, sponsors Patrick Gallagher and Honor Finn (left page, 11th entry down)
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633960#page/55/mode/1up

?uffy is most probably Duffy, a couple with those names had other children baptised in this parish, Patrick 1854, Catherine 1855 and this example - Margaret on 12 February 1860 (left page, 14th entry down):
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633960#page/45/mode/1up

And there was a marriage in same parish for a couple with those names on 12 February 1852 (left page, top entry):
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633960#page/69/mode/1up

Gaffy

I searched the Baptism on this register this morning and didn't see these.
I remember thinking to myself - I can't see many children baptised 'John' yet my searches shows many many John Duffy's around the area at the time.

The name of child in the register doesn't read 'John' - seems to dtart with a 'J' but these eyes would never have linked the note to the name !! Is it in Latin or a form Irish ? & what does the register call the child if you know?

I take my hat off to you, whether this information proves right or wrong and i'm beginning to realise that asking on here is one of the best recent decisions I've made regarding my searches as a few kind souls have really helped.



 

[hallmark]

In Latin
.
.

[heywood]

It is Latin. The names have different endings according to the position in the sentence - forgotten most from school but the register shows Joannem  because he is the one to whom baptism is given. Dad’s name ends in ‘is’ because it is ‘of John’.
This might help
https://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit.com/latin-irish-parish-registers.html

Going back to the baptisms I posted, I think ‘ Randolphus’ is Harold who was born September quarter 1898 with mmn Hassall.