Anyone got access to Lisburn Advertiser archive for WWII?

[Martin Briscoe]

There was a query elsewhere about Thomas MacMann from Lisburn.  Born there about 1918 and KIA on Malta in 1941 whilst serving in the RAF.

He was awarded the military OBE earlier in 1941.

What is puzzling is that the CWGC record and his headstone show him only having the BEM.  I was hoping to check on the British Newspaper Archive but they have limited coverage of that newspaper.

I have found a tree on Ancestry that has him but no reply yet from them.

Wondering if anyone has access to anything in the area.

[aghadowey]

List of Northern Ireland newspapers and where held- not sure if PRONI will have others but you can search their e-catalogue-
http://www.librariesni.org.uk/Services/Heritage/Documents/Microfilm-list-for-Libraries-NI.pdf
https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/information-and-services/search-archives-online/ecatalogue

[gaffy]

I can't find an entry for Thomas MacMann killed in 1941 on the CWGC website, what am I doing wrong?

What award does the relevant Gazette confirm? https://www.thegazette.co.uk/honours-lists

 

[Martin Briscoe]

List of Northern Ireland newspapers and where held- not sure if PRONI will have others but you can search their e-catalogue-
http://www.librariesni.org.uk/Services/Heritage/Documents/Microfilm-list-for-Libraries-NI.pdf
https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/information-and-services/search-archives-online/ecatalogue

Sorry, they have it as McCann but seen MacCann used also.

London Gazette

CWGC

[gaffy]

I suppose my next question is (for I simply don't know), was the British Empire Medal part of the Order of the British Empire and could that explain the seeming contradiction?  That is, when the Gazette said that Aircraftman McCann was awarded 'The Medal of the Military Division of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire, for Meritorious Service', did that literally mean what we know as an OBE, or could that phraseology allow for it to have been a BEM, as affiliated to that Order?

Part of the Gazette background says 'King George V brought about a permanent and wide-ranging change to the British honours system when he introduced the Order of British Empire in June 1917. Ranging from Knights and Dames Grand Cross (GBE) to the British Empire Medal (BEM)...'

[Martin Briscoe]

I suppose my next question is (for I simply don't know), was the British Empire Medal part of the Order of the British Empire and could that explain the seeming contradiction?  That is, when the Gazette said that Aircraftman McCann was awarded 'The Medal of the Military Division of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire, for Meritorious Service', did that literally mean what we know as an OBE, or could that phraseology allow for it to have been a BEM, as affiliated to that Order?

Part of the Gazette background says 'King George V brought about a permanent and wide-ranging change to the British honours system when he introduced the Order of British Empire in June 1917. Ranging from Knights and Dames Grand Cross (GBE) to the British Empire Medal (BEM)...'

That's a possibility, it was widely reported in contemporary newspapers as OBE but could be that the announcement was misinterpreted by someone then that was repeated in other newspapers.

[gaffy]

Have a look at the first paragraph in the link below, then the following Birmingham Mail newspaper extract of March 1940 (which isn't related to McCann), all very confusing and a flavour of the potential for mis-reporting, I'm just wondering if this is at the root of it?

https://www.tracesofwar.com/awards/24/British-Empire-Medal-BEM-en-EGM.htm?c=aw

'A slip appears to have crept into some announcements of the recent awards to workmen for conspicuous gallantry whereby they averted an explosion at Waltham Abbey.  The honour was the E.M.G., not the O.B.E., and no doubt the confusion arose, as it has before, owing to the fact that the E.M.G. is so little known, and when incorporated in an Honours List invariably follows honours in the Order of the British Empire.  The full official description is the British Empire Medal for Gallantry...'

[Martin Briscoe]

I think it must be something like that.  Most of us are not used to the wording of the announcements in the London Gazette.  Probably normally the news agencies and main newspapers would get used to it but possible in wartime the job has been done by less experienced people.  I will see if I can find any corrections to the newspaper reports.

The CWGC are not infallible, I found a report of two bodies from the Otranto being found in this area. One was identified as an American soldier but the other just probably an American soldier.  But the death registration gave his name which did not fit with any of the Americans on the ship and was that of a British serviceman shown as Missing at Sea.  I contacted the CWGC with the details but did not get anywhere.

I managed to find a family member who knew little of his loss so were interestd to get the story.  They contacted the CWGC but at first similarly got nowhere but later they admitted the body had been identified but did not know what happened to it.

The relative was then contacted by someone who had been told about it by a now deceased  relative who found the body and buried it.

It is in a remote location and not sure whether it will be possible to find but it seems they might erect something even if only saying "buried near here".

[rathmore]

Have you written to the Lisburn Advertiser?