Author Topic: Confused about Royal Artillery & Royal Engineers  (Read 775 times)

Offline Melbell

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Confused about Royal Artillery & Royal Engineers
« on: Tuesday 03 April 18 20:49 BST (UK) »
Please can someone clarify the difference between the Royal Artillery and the Royal Engineers?

This sounds a daft question, but I'm confused by a record in the Royal Hospital Chelsea Regimental Registers of Pensioners 1713-1882.

The regiment on the actual document in this case is just given as 'Drivers' and I'm interested in a man who was a Driver in the Royal Artillery until discharge to pension 31st October 1814.  The record I'm looking at says a man of the right name was 'admitted' 1st November 1814.  However, the record is listed under 7th-14th Battalion Artillery, Royal Engineers.

I tried Googling and looking at Wikipedia but just got more confused, I'm afraid!

Melbell


Offline MaxD

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Re: Confused about Royal Artillery & Royal Engineers
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 03 April 18 21:14 BST (UK) »
Completely separate regiments.  It looks as if the titling of whatever you are looking at is causing the confusion.  At that time both the Royal Artillery and the Royal Engineers (and one or two others) were overseen by the Master General of the Ordnance and not by the War Office.  I have seen some documentation which had both Royal Artillery and Royal Engineers details so my suspicion is that the register had details of "7-14 Battalions Royal Artillery" AND "Royal Engineers" in the same document.

Could you give a steer to what you are looking at?

MaxD
I am Zoe Northeast, granddaughter of Maximilian Double.
 
It is with great difficulty I share with you that in the early hours of 07 August 2021, Maximilian passed away unexpectedly but peacefully.

With deep sadness,
Zoe



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Offline Melbell

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Re: Confused about Royal Artillery & Royal Engineers
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 04 April 18 17:00 BST (UK) »
Hi MaxD

Thank you for your reply.  I have done a bit more digging now and looked at the description of this document in the National Archives catalogue.  There it (WO120/68) is listed as "7th-14th Battalions Artillery, Miscellaneous Artillery, Royal Engineers", as you suggested including all these different groups.  This makes sense as it means my Driver was not in the RE (hurray!).

Would you be able to tell me what the numbers under his date of admission mean please?  5485 H (I think it's an H).  His residence is given as Wrotham Chatham (in 1814) so I suppose that was where he was discharged? 

I have been searching for decades for this man's death or burial so if it's the right one it's a major break-through for me, as his date of death is included in the record! 

Melbell

Offline MaxD

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Re: Confused about Royal Artillery & Royal Engineers
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 04 April 18 17:09 BST (UK) »
Could you give me his name, I'd like to look at the original entry (assuming it is on Ancestry or FindMyPast).

MaxD
I am Zoe Northeast, granddaughter of Maximilian Double.
 
It is with great difficulty I share with you that in the early hours of 07 August 2021, Maximilian passed away unexpectedly but peacefully.

With deep sadness,
Zoe



Double  Essex/Suffolk
Randle/Millington Warwicks
Sokser/Klingler Austria/Croatia


Offline Melbell

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Re: Confused about Royal Artillery & Royal Engineers
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 04 April 18 19:43 BST (UK) »
Thomas Short - on Ancestry.

Many thanks,
Melbell

Offline MaxD

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Re: Confused about Royal Artillery & Royal Engineers
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 04 April 18 20:26 BST (UK) »
It cross references  the serial number of his discharge papers which are in the NA document WO 97/1261/160 (on FindMyPast also).

MaxD

Cross check - born Storrington Sussex served 1795 to 31 Oct 1814 (thus admitted to pension 1 Nov 1814)
I am Zoe Northeast, granddaughter of Maximilian Double.
 
It is with great difficulty I share with you that in the early hours of 07 August 2021, Maximilian passed away unexpectedly but peacefully.

With deep sadness,
Zoe



Double  Essex/Suffolk
Randle/Millington Warwicks
Sokser/Klingler Austria/Croatia

Offline Melbell

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Re: Confused about Royal Artillery & Royal Engineers
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 05 April 18 09:33 BST (UK) »
Hi MaxD

Yes, I have had his Discharge Papers for over a decade now and have researched and am researching his life in detail - but it's not the easiest path to follow!  He was actually born in Sandhurst (Kent). When he was a small child the family were removed to West Grinstead where his father was settled, but they moved to Storrington about two years later.  I won't bore you now with the rest of his history, but his wife is also very difficult to trace.  I've never found a death (or re-marriage) for her either.  If he is the man in the Pension List, I now have to find out why he appears to have had a connection with Wrotham/Chatham and why he apparently died there.  The discharge date and the admission to pension date make it seem almost bizarre that there could be two Thomas Shorts!

Melbell

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Re: Confused about Royal Artillery & Royal Engineers
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 05 April 18 09:59 BST (UK) »
You've obviously got years start on me but for what it is worth:
The discharge papers and the pension entry are clearly the same Thomas Short, the cross reference number is the clincher.
Neither of those have anything about Wrotham/Chatham. 
Brompton Barracks in Chatham was an artillery and engineer barracks 1804-1856.  Perhaps his service finished there and he remained settled in the area?

MaxD


I am Zoe Northeast, granddaughter of Maximilian Double.
 
It is with great difficulty I share with you that in the early hours of 07 August 2021, Maximilian passed away unexpectedly but peacefully.

With deep sadness,
Zoe



Double  Essex/Suffolk
Randle/Millington Warwicks
Sokser/Klingler Austria/Croatia

Offline Melbell

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Re: Confused about Royal Artillery & Royal Engineers
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 05 April 18 15:28 BST (UK) »
Hi again MaxD and thanks for your reply. 

I am delighted that you are sure this is the right Thomas Short, but I'm sorry to say that I don't understand what you say.  :(  Please could you explain in a bit more detail for me? Is the cross-reference number the 5485 H?  It clearly says in the Pension paper that his residence is Wrotham/Chatham.  ???

He was described as a pauper in the 1820s in West Grinstead and his children were in the Poor House for many years.  Yet in the 1841 Census for Wrotham there he is (apparently) described as Independent.  He dies there in 1847.  I suppose I'd better fork out for the DC.

Thank you for telling me about the barracks in Chatham.  If he was discharged in Wrotham he didn't stay there long - he has children born in Battle in 1816 and 1818, and then the family goes to West Grinstead (his place of settlement).  He must have gone back to Kent later in life, although this seems a bit odd to me, especially as he was crippled with arthritis. Hmmm.

Melbell