Author Topic: Should I give up due to the common name?  (Read 782 times)

Offline coombs

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Should I give up due to the common name?
« on: Wednesday 04 April 18 17:26 BST (UK) »
Long post here but here goes.

My ancestor was James Smith born c1790. He married Sarah Inkpen in August 1819 at All Saints, Oxford, Oxfordshire. The witnesses was Hannah Hawkes and Andrew Carney. James was a tin plate worker/brazier.

James and Sarah had several children inbetween 1820 and 1840. Names such as Sarah, Edwin, George, Ann, William, Henry, James, Charles, Eliza (born 1822 who is my ancestor), Elizabeth and Harriet. Harriet, Edwin and James did in infancy. Sarah died in 1841 aged 21 and Henry died in 1846 aged 20. Only William, Eliza, Ann, George and Charles survived. James worked as a tin plate worker/brazier all his working life it seems.

In the 1841 census, James says he was not born in the county of residence, which was Oxfordshire. The 1851 census was the first one which required people to give their exact birthplace. Sadly James died on the 24th February 1849 aged 59, so 2 years prior to the 1851 census. His widow died in 1858 aged 62. She was from Oxford. Neither James or Sarah left wills as far as I know.

Seeming as he died before the 1851 census (and said he was not born in Oxfordshire in 1841) and his name was Smith it is going to be very hard. I do have a possible lead with the Andrew Carney who was a witness to James Smith's wedding in 1819. Seems he was from London but lived in Oxford for a short time in 1819 as he and his wife Sarah had a daughter Ann baptised at St Clement, Oxford in 1819. Andrew was a turner. Andrew was later a gold size maker. I found him in 1841 aged 53 in Clerkenwell. He was born in county which was Middlesex. I am sure he was married 3 times, his 2nd wife was Elizabeth Parnell who he wed in 1834 but the register says he was a bachelor.

In 1842 he remarried and said his father was James Carney a cutler. So it seems James Smith, Andrew Carney and Andrew's father were in the metal working business. Andrew died in 1845 aged 56 so born c1788. Not found a baptism yet. I think he married Sarah Pollard in 1809 and they were in London in 1810 and 1812, Oxford in 1819 and Edgware in 1819.

In 1819 James Smith and Andrew Carney lived in Oxford, James a tin plate worker, and Andrew a turner. James chose Andrew Carney as a witness to his wedding. Although unfortunately he could have just known James through work and was a friend. If so then tracing James Smith's baptism will probably be impossible.





Researching:

LONDON, Coombs, Roberts, Auber, Helsdon, Fradine, Morin, Goodacre
DORSET Coombs, Munday
NORFOLK Helsdon, Riches, Harbord, Budery
KENT Roberts, Goodacre
SUSSEX Walder, Boniface, Dinnage, Standen, Lee, Botten, Wickham, Jupp
SUFFOLK Titshall, Frost, Fairweather, Mayhew, Archer, Eade, Scarfe
DURHAM Stewart, Musgrave, Wilson, Forster
SCOTLAND Stewart in Selkirk
USA Musgrave, Saix
ESSEX Cornwell, Stock, Quilter, Lawrence, Whale, Clift
OXON Edgington, Smith, Inkpen, Snell, Batten, Brain

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Offline Galium

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Re: Should I give up due to the common name?
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 04 April 18 18:41 BST (UK) »
Have you tried looking for a record of him serving an apprenticeship? 
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Offline jc26red

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Re: Should I give up due to the common name?
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 04 April 18 20:13 BST (UK) »
Poor law records?
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Offline coombs

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Re: Should I give up due to the common name?
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 04 April 18 20:34 BST (UK) »
Have you tried looking for a record of him serving an apprenticeship?

Not yet. That could be a starting point.

I have looked at the poor law records on the Oxfordshire online heritage search website but found nothing obvious.
Researching:

LONDON, Coombs, Roberts, Auber, Helsdon, Fradine, Morin, Goodacre
DORSET Coombs, Munday
NORFOLK Helsdon, Riches, Harbord, Budery
KENT Roberts, Goodacre
SUSSEX Walder, Boniface, Dinnage, Standen, Lee, Botten, Wickham, Jupp
SUFFOLK Titshall, Frost, Fairweather, Mayhew, Archer, Eade, Scarfe
DURHAM Stewart, Musgrave, Wilson, Forster
SCOTLAND Stewart in Selkirk
USA Musgrave, Saix
ESSEX Cornwell, Stock, Quilter, Lawrence, Whale, Clift
OXON Edgington, Smith, Inkpen, Snell, Batten, Brain

Online pinefamily

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Re: Should I give up due to the common name?
« Reply #4 on: Monday 16 April 18 10:58 BST (UK) »
When I saw the thread title, I thought "Coombs give up? No way!" But that is a tough one, isn't it? Apprenticeships are one avenue, as already mentioned. Have a look in surrounding counties for 1841 census for tinplate workers named Smith, then follow them back in parish records to see if there's a link to your James. I know it's a long shot, but it is one way to approach it.
I am Australian, from all the lands I come (my ancestors, at least!)

Pine/Pyne, Dowdeswell, Kempster, Sando/Sandoe/Sandow, Nancarrow, Carrington, Hounslow, Youatt, Richardson, Jarmyn, Oxlade, Coad, Bentham, Holloway, Lindner, Pittaway, and too many others to name.

Offline iluleah

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Re: Should I give up due to the common name?
« Reply #5 on: Monday 16 April 18 11:43 BST (UK) »
Give up? No I don't think that is in your nature  ;D

I do completely understand having almost the same story, same era and similar issues born outside the county, died before the 1851 and with the name of John Smith.

I remember first finding the name and thinking 'help'...'not a chance'... 'what now'.... and I had been lulled into a false sense of security as all previous research up to then was not only in the same county but in the same village plus a few in the next village for centuries.

So I ignored him for years until I couldn't ignore him any more and like yourself I wrote down all/any records I did have/could find, what potential records could be available at that time, where they were and spent time researching them.

I found a few John Smiths and researched each one forward to see who they were, what the did, where they lived , discounting one after the other until I found the right one and this was all pre internet so took many hours which now can be done in minutes.
 

Leicestershire:Chamberlain, Dakin, Wilkinson, Moss, Cook, Welland, Dobson, Roper,Palfreman, Squires, Hames, Goddard, Topliss, Twells,Bacon.
Northamps:Sykes, Harris, Rice,Knowles.
Rutland:Clements, Dalby, Osbourne, Durance, Smith,Christian, Royce, Richardson,Oakham, Dewey,Newbold,Cox,Chamberlaine,Brow, Cooper, Bloodworth,Clarke
Durham/Yorks:Woodend, Watson,Parker, Dowser
Suffolk/Norfolk:Groom, Coleman, Kemp, Barnard, Alden,Blomfield,Smith,Howes,Knight,Kett,Fryston
Lincolnshire:Clements, Woodend

Online pinefamily

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Re: Should I give up due to the common name?
« Reply #6 on: Monday 16 April 18 11:58 BST (UK) »
Unless you can see the original images, often the internet can lead us down wrong paths though.
I am Australian, from all the lands I come (my ancestors, at least!)

Pine/Pyne, Dowdeswell, Kempster, Sando/Sandoe/Sandow, Nancarrow, Carrington, Hounslow, Youatt, Richardson, Jarmyn, Oxlade, Coad, Bentham, Holloway, Lindner, Pittaway, and too many others to name.

Offline iluleah

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Re: Should I give up due to the common name?
« Reply #7 on: Monday 16 April 18 12:13 BST (UK) »
Unless you can see the original images, often the internet can lead us down wrong paths though.

Very true, which is why the internet is just one tool in a huge toolbox of tools.

Leicestershire:Chamberlain, Dakin, Wilkinson, Moss, Cook, Welland, Dobson, Roper,Palfreman, Squires, Hames, Goddard, Topliss, Twells,Bacon.
Northamps:Sykes, Harris, Rice,Knowles.
Rutland:Clements, Dalby, Osbourne, Durance, Smith,Christian, Royce, Richardson,Oakham, Dewey,Newbold,Cox,Chamberlaine,Brow, Cooper, Bloodworth,Clarke
Durham/Yorks:Woodend, Watson,Parker, Dowser
Suffolk/Norfolk:Groom, Coleman, Kemp, Barnard, Alden,Blomfield,Smith,Howes,Knight,Kett,Fryston
Lincolnshire:Clements, Woodend

Offline coombs

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Re: Should I give up due to the common name?
« Reply #8 on: Monday 16 April 18 12:29 BST (UK) »
I do wonder who this Andrew Carney was who witnessed James Smith's marriage in 1819 in Oxford. As I said before it seems Andrew did live in Oxford for a short time then went back to London as he had a daughter baptised in Oxford in 1819 at St Clement. He was a "turner" (metal) then a gold size maker. This means he worked in the metal industry as well as James Smith. He married for the 3rd time in 1842 and said his father was James Carney, a cutler. Andrew Carney, James Carney and James Smith all worked in the metal making industry.

Nan always said there was some Irish in the blood on that side of the family, the Edgington and Smith side.

Andrew Carney may have been a relative of James Smith. I did find in the Duties Paid for apprenticeship records a C Carney was the master to a J Smith in 1801. That is all it says. My James Smith was born c1789.

Researching:

LONDON, Coombs, Roberts, Auber, Helsdon, Fradine, Morin, Goodacre
DORSET Coombs, Munday
NORFOLK Helsdon, Riches, Harbord, Budery
KENT Roberts, Goodacre
SUSSEX Walder, Boniface, Dinnage, Standen, Lee, Botten, Wickham, Jupp
SUFFOLK Titshall, Frost, Fairweather, Mayhew, Archer, Eade, Scarfe
DURHAM Stewart, Musgrave, Wilson, Forster
SCOTLAND Stewart in Selkirk
USA Musgrave, Saix
ESSEX Cornwell, Stock, Quilter, Lawrence, Whale, Clift
OXON Edgington, Smith, Inkpen, Snell, Batten, Brain