Author Topic: Research in Archives in Paris  (Read 5413 times)


Offline joger

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Re: Research in Archives in Paris
« Reply #19 on: Monday 09 April 18 12:55 BST (UK) »
Very interesting : the godfather was Jacques Joseph Nicolas Taverne de Montdhiver, écuyer seigneur de cette paroisse , he signs Taverne de Montdhiver.

See my preceding post  "I presume you already know this"
"The Bristol Mercury and Daily Post, Thursday, 10 May 1894, issue 14351
"MARRIAGES"
"DE RIDDER - COLMAN -- On May 9th at the Abbey Church, Bath, by the
Rev. Thomas K. Allen, of Clifton, Louis Edward de Ridder, of Newbury
house, Clifton, member of the ancient Marquisate family de Renesquieu
de Bourbourg et de Monthiver to Stephana Augusta Colman, of Erlestoke,
Clifton, widow of the late E. S. [Edward Stone] Colman, and second
daughter of the late Thomas Plummer, of North Wilts. No cards."

This set me looking for the roots of this claim. I have dredged up a
fair amount in English publications, but have found little
corroboration in French ones. Is this a case of La Fausse Noblesse or
La Noblesse d'Apparence?

There is a passing reference to Louis Edouard de Ridder de Mont Hiver,
Marquis de Renezcure and Baron de Bourbourg et Mont Hiver in Crisp's
"Visitation of England and Wales", vol. 6, p. 83, under Smith,
formerly of Sidbury Hall, Salop. "

and more to read.

It seems that Louis Edward "borrowed" the title of the Lord "seigneur" of his half brother's godfather.

The presse articles quoted in the discussion show that Louis was said "a member of the marquisate "family", later marquis of Renescure ,and baron of Montdhiver , later Count of Montdhiver. But it was a fake nobility.

Offline joger

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Re: Research in Archives in Paris
« Reply #20 on: Monday 09 April 18 12:57 BST (UK) »
I asked on a french forum if someone can go and read the wedding contract De Ridder/De Groote in Saint-Omer Library.
We'll see.

Offline davidqueneherve

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Re: Research in Archives in Paris
« Reply #21 on: Monday 09 April 18 13:55 BST (UK) »
Désiré Adrien Barthelemi DERIDDER got married in Dunkerque in 1817

http://archivesdepartementales.lenord.fr/?id=viewer&doc=accounts%2Fmnesys_ad59%2Fdatas%2Fir%2FEtat%20civil%2FFRAD059_MI_A_Z_2011_07_01%2Exml&page_ref=102777&lot_num=1&img_num=1&index_in_visu=
view 494

His father is deceased and was a "chirurgien major, attaché à l'ambulance du Prince d'Orange" "mort à l'armée".


Offline davidqueneherve

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Offline joger

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Re: Research in Archives in Paris
« Reply #23 on: Monday 09 April 18 15:58 BST (UK) »
http://archivesdepartementales.lenord.fr/?id=viewer&doc=accounts%2Fmnesys_ad59%2Fdatas%2Fir%2FEtat%20civil%2FFRAD059_MI_A_Z_2011_07_01%2Exml&page_ref=245560&lot_num=1&img_num=1
page 633/1240
birth of Désiré Adrien Barthélémy 17 november 1787 Renescure  son of JB De Ridder bailli. Godfather , guess who? ...messire Le Febure , seigneur de Renescure.

So, between 1787 and 1817, Jean Barthélémy died, having changed his occupation , becoming a surgeon (his former occupation) (chirurgien major= army surgeon) in the army of the prince of Orange. Right after 1787 the french Revolution took place, the princes of Orange between 1787 and 1817 were Guillaume V and Guillaume VI (depends on when Jean Barthélémy died, but I 'd rather say Guillaume V was the prince he served), they were not in favor of the Revolution ,as you can guess. In 1793 France declared war to the Netherlands . Jean died in the army ( so probably not in 1791 but later).


Where could we get a list of the dead in the army of the prince of Orange during the wars of these times?


Offline joger

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Re: Research in Archives in Paris
« Reply #24 on: Monday 09 April 18 16:36 BST (UK) »
Annales ..., Volumes 6-7 1862
Comité flamand de France
p. 275
"LISTE DES DELEGUES
Choisis par les Villes, Bourgs, Paroisses et Communautés de campagne
ayant un rôle séparé de contribution, pour représenter l'Ordre du
Tiers État de la Flandre Maritime à l'Assemblée Bailliagère, du 30
mars 1789, à Bailleul.
Page 282
[330 feus] Renescure (Paroisse et Seigneurie). [4 deputes] NOM,
PRÉNOMS, Etc.  des Députés.... Jean-Barthelemi De Ridder, Bailli.
[followed by 3 more names]"

from the link I gave upwards concerning the discussion of nobility.

A proof that Jean Barthélémy was'nt a noble  : he was a deputy of the Tiers Etat (not clergy, not noble).

Offline davidqueneherve

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Re: Research in Archives in Paris
« Reply #25 on: Monday 09 April 18 16:50 BST (UK) »
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/MS19140523.2.15

killed at the retreat of Neville, while defending the Dauphin of France

Offline davidqueneherve

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