Research in Archives in Paris

[davidqueneherve]

https://en.geneanet.org/archives/releves/view/publi/428#DERI

[joger]

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/MS19140523.2.15

killed at the retreat of Neville, while defending the Dauphin of France

Yes I read that , but I can't find a proof of the retreat of Neville if you can that will give us the date of Jean Barthélémy's death.

[davidqueneherve]

Neville could be a person rather than a place.

Madame de Neuville was a maid of Marie Antoinette and she followed the royal family during the flight to Varennes in another stagecoach

Pictorial History of England: Being a History of the People, as Well ...
https://books.google.fr/books?id=uMhLAAAAYAAJ - Traduire cette page
George Lillie Craik, ‎Charles MacFarlane - 1847 - ‎Great Britain
The poor little dauphin and his sister, who had been snatched from their beds in the Tuileries when the fatal flight began, and who had been shaken over rough ... with her head leaning on her hands, and having near her Mesdames Brunier and Neuville, the two waitingwomen who had followed the berline in the chaise.

But as you say, it's more likely a place

Full text of "The flight to Varennes, and other historical essays"
https://archive.org/stream/.../cu31924027987985_djvu.txt

Traduire cette page
At five in the afternoon D'Andoins walked out on the road to Pont-Sommevesle, but saw no- ' We know that he was at Neuville-au-Pont at a little be- fore eight. 26 THE FLIGHT TO VARENNES. thing. SHortly afterwards Leonard, the hairdresser, arrived with ChoiseaPs message, that the treasure would probably not pass that ...

[joger]

I don't think so , I think it is a place, but it may be Neville or Neuville or Nevele or Nivelle .
Pas de Calais : Neuville-au-Cornet
Neuville-Bourjonval
Neuville-Saint-Vaast
Neuville-sous-Montreuil
Neuville-Vitasse

Nord : La Neuville
Neuville-en-Avesnois
Neuville-en-Ferrain
Neuville-Saint-Rémy
Neuville-sur-Escaut
Neuvilly

Picardie -Somme :
Neuville-au-Bois
Neuville-Coppegueule
La Neuville-lès-Bray
Neuville-lès-Loeuilly
La Neuville-Sire-Bernard

Picardie -Aisne :
 La Neuville-Bosmont
La Neuville-en-Beine
La Neuville-Housset
La Neuville-lès-Dorengt
Neuville-Saint-Amand
Neuville-sur-Ailette
Neuville-sur-Margival
Nivelle

Ardennes :
 La Neuville-à-Maire
La Neuville-aux-Joûtes
Neuville-Day
La Neuville-en-Tourne-à-Fuy
Neuville-lès-This
La Neuville-lès-Wasigny
Neuville-lez-Beaulieu

Meuse:
Neuville-en-Verdunois
Neuville-lès-Vaucouleurs
Neuville-sur-Ornain

Belgium:
Nevele

[joger]

The "Dauphin de France" was the heir of the throne, a child , not supposed to be at war .
A surgeon is not supposed to fight in the army.
The only circumstance that could have led someone to defend the Dauphin de france was the "fuite de Varennes" in 1791 when the royal family tried to leave France , but nobody was killed  (I think).

[Hukanui76]

Thank you both very much for your replies.   I think the newspaper reports in England and New Zealand were some truth but mostly embellished.   Jean B's son Louis who was born in 1781 joined the Napoleonic navy at some stage possibly as a young boy, captured by the British in 1805 and then lived the rest of his life as a teacher of French in Bristol.   At his death no mention made of any nobility and then all of a sudden one of the sons discovers papers that claim the story of nobility etc.   Obviously the story grew with time.   My cousin and I are trying to make sense of it all.   Obviously De Ridder family were of upper class probably because of who godparents etc were??   Still an interesting story and thanks for filling in some of the holes so to speak.
Jean B's father Louis Nicolas de Ridder was a boulanger in Dunkerque I think and another generation or two back there was a Cornil de Ridder who was meant to have property.  Plenty to work on for me.
Recorded Paris Roubaix cycle race and have just witnessed them entering Dept Nord!
Thank you so much for your help
Heather

[davidqueneherve]

On findmypast

Deridder   L E   —   —   1805   Prisoners Of War 1715-1945   —

[davidqueneherve]

Thank you both very much for your replies.   I think the newspaper reports in England and New Zealand were some truth but mostly embellished.   Jean B's son Louis who was born in 1781 joined the Napoleonic navy at some stage possibly as a young boy, captured by the British in 1805 and then lived the rest of his life as a teacher of French in Bristol.   At his death no mention made of any nobility and then all of a sudden one of the sons discovers papers that claim the story of nobility etc.   Obviously the story grew with time.   My cousin and I are trying to make sense of it all.   Obviously De Ridder family were of upper class probably because of who godparents etc were??   Still an interesting story and thanks for filling in some of the holes so to speak.
Jean B's father Louis Nicolas de Ridder was a boulanger in Dunkerque I think and another generation or two back there was a Cornil de Ridder who was meant to have property.  Plenty to work on for me.
Recorded Paris Roubaix cycle race and have just witnessed them entering Dept Nord!
Thank you so much for your help
Heather

Someone might have misread those old papers in French and was pleased with what he thought he has discovered.

The "de" in the family name is not French.
It's "the" in Flemish. The name means the rider.

[joger]

Hello Heather,
yes it is a lovely fantasy but ancestors don't have to be noble to be of interest. Jean Barthélémy was wealthy, educated , his friends and allies were bourgeois too and the seigneurs and nobles of that time accepted to be godfathers and mothers in two cases : the parents were friends or they all were protestants ( protestants nobles were godfathers and godmothers of multiple children in troubled times , without being close friends of the parents, it gave more protection to the children).  I don't see evidence of protestantism in the De Ridder records.

How do you know the name of JB 's father (the records of Cassel are missing for the years concerned (around 1742 for his birth) ?

Indeed the name De Ridder should have Dutch or flemish origins, so does De Groote, Heems and many names of this area .