Author Topic: Peter Copland abt 1782 - 1852  (Read 3335 times)

Offline themonkeymonkey

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Peter Copland abt 1782 - 1852
« on: Tuesday 10 April 18 21:25 BST (UK) »
Trying to find the parents of Peter Copland.  In the 1851 Census it says he was born In Rothes, Morayshire ( the only census I have found) about 1782 and he was a Pauper and Quarry labourer.  He died in Aberdeen on 17th November 1852.   He was married to Isabel Shand (1787-1824) in Rathven in 1805.  I cannot find any mention of brothers/sisters of Peter nor who his parents were.  Anyone else got him in their tree please?  Thanks.
Manson, Wilson, Copland, Craighead, Youngson, Ross, Thomson, Smith, Horn

Offline rosie17

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Re: Peter Copland abt 1782 - 1852
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 10 April 18 21:40 BST (UK) »
There is a Peter Copland age 80 born Rothes Elgin  inmate in Old Machar Poorhouse on the 1861
Census occupation formerly Quarrier ..
A tree on Ancestry has a death for him 17 February 1862 Aberdeen Poor House
Might be worth while checking on Scotlands People to see if he is yours

Rosie

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Peter Copland abt 1782 - 1852
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 10 April 18 21:47 BST (UK) »
The 1861 census transcription at FreeCEN lists in the poor house in Old Machar Peter Copland, 80, widowed, formerly quarrier, born Rothes, so it looks as if he did not die in 1852. I recommend a look at that 1862 death certificate.

He is also in the 1841 census in Woodside, aged 55, quarrier, born outside the county, with Helen Copland, 50, born Aberdeenshire.

As he was a pauper, there will be information about him in the Aberdeen parochial board records. He will have applied to them for relief and they will have dealt with him. One of the things routinely asked of applicants was the names of their parents. Depending on how long he had lived in Aberdeen, they may have written to Rothes to claim back the cost of looking after him.

I note the baptism of Patrick Copland, son of William Copland, baptised in Rothes on 15 September 1781. The names Peter and Patrick are used interchangeably, so this is probably him. There are seven more baptisms of children to Wil/l/iam C*p*land in Rothes between 1754 and 1779, but no obvious marriage. However at this time the Rothes baptism records often contain useful details about witnesses to baptisms, sometimes describing the relationship of a witness to the child, and one can sometimes deduce the name of a missing mother from these.

I see that the eldest son of Peter Copland and Isabel Shand was named William. 
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline Wendy2305

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Re: Peter Copland abt 1782 - 1852
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 10 April 18 21:50 BST (UK) »
There is a record of a Patrick born 1781 in Rothes son of William. Patrick and Peter are interchangeable have you considered this one

What are the names of Peters children sometimes they can offer clues


Offline themonkeymonkey

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Re: Peter Copland abt 1782 - 1852
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 11 April 18 18:48 BST (UK) »

Not sure if that is my Peter that died in 1862 as it gives his wife as Helen Brown.  I've looked at the date of their marriage and it is 1809 on Old Machar but he was still presumably with Isabel Shand then and having children with her right up until 1820 (I have seen death certificates or marriage certificates of some of the children and they all say Isabel Shand as their mother).  Peter and Isabel had 7 children:
Margaret 1806-1876
William  1808-1854
Peter 1811
Isabella  1812-1884
Jane  1815
Jessie (Janet)  1818-1900
John  1820-1870
In one way it fits great namewise as on the 1862 death certificate it gives parents as Margaret Findlay and William Copland which is the name of the first 2 children but it also gives the witness as Charles Thick son-in-law and he did not have a son-in-law with that name.
The birth certificate of Patrick Copland in 1781 says: Patrick lawful son to William Copland in Conrack was baptised.  Witnesses Patrick Riach in ??? Haugh and Patrick Dean in the Black-burn.
Thanks everyone for your help I do appreciate it, can someone just wave a magic wand and make it all fit?  Thanks.
Manson, Wilson, Copland, Craighead, Youngson, Ross, Thomson, Smith, Horn

Offline Wendy2305

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Re: Peter Copland abt 1782 - 1852
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 11 April 18 19:11 BST (UK) »
I would agree that the Peter Copland who was married to Helen Brown is not your Peter as they were having children to Aberdeen area about the same time as your peter and Isobel including a Margaret in 1813 in Old Machar

So I think this rules out them Do you have anything else on Isobel Shand also it is usually the first son and second daughter who are named after the paternal grandparents and the 1st daughter and 2nd son who are named after the maternal grandparents

Offline themonkeymonkey

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Re: Peter Copland abt 1782 - 1852
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 11 April 18 19:17 BST (UK) »
Isabel Shands parents were ..... William and Margaret.   Which is the name of first and 2nd children.  I'm beginning to think this one is going to end up a mystery :(.
Manson, Wilson, Copland, Craighead, Youngson, Ross, Thomson, Smith, Horn

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Peter Copland abt 1782 - 1852
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 11 April 18 20:59 BST (UK) »
So Peter/Patrick Copland was born in Rothes, moved to Aberdeen, worked as a quarrier, married Helen Brown in 1809, had a family including a daughter who married Charles Thick, and ended his days as a pauper in St Machar poor house.

Your Peter Copland married Isabel Shand in 1805 and had at least seven of a family, born at roughly the same time as the Rothes-born Peter/Patrick's family were being born in Aberdeen.

Therefore we have not one Peter/Patrick Copland, but two.

What evidence did you find that made you think that your Peter, who married Isabel Shand, was born in Rothes?

All seven known children of Peter Copland and Isabel Shand were baptised in Rathven. Do any of their baptisms say what Peter's occupation was? Or where they lived? Or name witnesses to the baptisms?

Where did you find the death you mentioned in 1852? What does it tell you?

How do you know the names of Isabel Shand?'s parents? Do you have a death certificate (in which case where and when did she die?) or* have you made assumptions?

*Edit: I realise that you already said that Isabel died in 1824, so there obviously can't be a death certificate. What is the evidence that the Isabel Shand who died in 1824 was your one?
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline themonkeymonkey

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Re: Peter Copland abt 1782 - 1852
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 11 April 18 21:30 BST (UK) »
The only thing that I have that said that Peter Copland was born in Rothes is the 1851 Census.  His marriage to Isabel Shand says they are residents of Rathven.  Isabels birth is registered in Source Citation for Scotland, Select Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950 an it gives her parents names there.
Death registrations of some of the children actually say that Peter is a master shoemaker so maybe it is not him that died in 1852 as he is listed as a labourer.  I think I might need to go back to the drawing board with this one :(.
Manson, Wilson, Copland, Craighead, Youngson, Ross, Thomson, Smith, Horn