Author Topic: Identification of uniform in (victorian?) group photo  (Read 748 times)

Online Regorian

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Re: Identification of uniform in (victorian?) group photo
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday 11 April 18 16:54 BST (UK) »
This matter does not seem to be moving forward very quickly for the OP. Hope this post brings the matter to the front of the queue anyway. Super photograph anyway.

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Offline teach3r

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Re: Identification of uniform in (victorian?) group photo
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 11 April 18 18:15 BST (UK) »
Thanks Regorian - fingers crossed!
Berkshire: Clarke, Croxford, Eustace
Devon: Blackmore, Matthews
Hull: Grant, Nicholson, Patterson, White
Gwyddelwern, Betws GG, Denbighshire: Davies, Evans
Glamorgan: Dean, Matthews
Bilston, Staffordshire: Dean
Shafton, Yorkshire: Miles, Moulson,
Wiltshire: Emery

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Offline John915

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Re: Identification of uniform in (victorian?) group photo
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 11 April 18 21:13 BST (UK) »
Good evening,

I will go out on a limb and say South Wales Borderers, why you ask.

The old glengarry badges tended to be larger than conventional badges. About fifty % of them were basically the same badge.

That is the garter belt in a circle with the motto on it. Topped with the Queens crown and the regt'l device in the centre. The badge shown seems to conform to that design and the OP says there is a Welsh connection.

Of course, it could be any one of the other non royal regt's with that design badge.

John915
Stephens, Fuller, Tedham, Bennett, Ransome (Sussex)
Rider (Fulham)
Stephens (Somerset)
Kentfield (Essex)

Offline teach3r

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Re: Identification of uniform in (victorian?) group photo
« Reply #12 on: Thursday 12 April 18 17:10 BST (UK) »
Thanks John,

I have emailed The Royal Welsh Museum with a copy of the photo to see what they come back with.

Nic
Berkshire: Clarke, Croxford, Eustace
Devon: Blackmore, Matthews
Hull: Grant, Nicholson, Patterson, White
Gwyddelwern, Betws GG, Denbighshire: Davies, Evans
Glamorgan: Dean, Matthews
Bilston, Staffordshire: Dean
Shafton, Yorkshire: Miles, Moulson,
Wiltshire: Emery

Offline T1

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Re: Identification of uniform in (victorian?) group photo
« Reply #13 on: Thursday 19 April 18 09:44 BST (UK) »
This really could be any English or Welsh regiment that did not have a "Royal" title. Its certainly not a Scottish regiment. This pattern of tunic was worn between 1881 and 1902.  There is no reason in the photo to think it is the SWB in particular, as most regiments wore a similar badge of a circlet mounted by a crown at this time.  Is the original less blurred - perhaps you could make out the white shoulder titles, using a magnifying glass?

At this time moustaches were mandatory for regular soldiers (if they could grow them, of course).  The fact that half of the men do not have them could suggest that they are members of a Militia battalion (paid part-time soldiers - different from the unpaid "Volunteers" who later became the Territorial Army)

Offline John915

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Re: Identification of uniform in (victorian?) group photo
« Reply #14 on: Thursday 19 April 18 10:10 BST (UK) »
Good morning,

Wrong cuffs for militia, they would have had Austrian knots above a pointed cuff.

Also just noticed, the sgt with the medal has an extra band around his left arm above the cuff. It seems to have lettering on it, maybe "RP" but not 100% sure.

John915

Added, volunteers and militia became the territorial force in 1908.
Stephens, Fuller, Tedham, Bennett, Ransome (Sussex)
Rider (Fulham)
Stephens (Somerset)
Kentfield (Essex)

Offline T1

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Re: Identification of uniform in (victorian?) group photo
« Reply #15 on: Thursday 19 April 18 12:09 BST (UK) »
This is wrong, the Militia had exactly the same cuffs as regulars (as seen here) after 1881.  The volunteers had Austrian knots.

Also wrong that the militia became part of the Territorial Force.  They became a separate entity called the "Special Reserve", and were wound up after the First World War.

I try to keep polite so I won't get into an argument, but I do know what I'm talking about.  I just don't post on here very often.



Offline teach3r

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Re: Identification of uniform in (victorian?) group photo
« Reply #16 on: Thursday 19 April 18 13:35 BST (UK) »
Thank you for everyone's continued discussion on this one.  The reply that I have had from the museum is as follows:
It could be 24th Regiment pre 1881, but we are unable to see the badges well enough to confirm this. Does the belt buckle say XXIV, is the collar badge a Sphinx, the cap badge may be the 24th Regiment Glengarry, does it say 24 on it ? 
Berkshire: Clarke, Croxford, Eustace
Devon: Blackmore, Matthews
Hull: Grant, Nicholson, Patterson, White
Gwyddelwern, Betws GG, Denbighshire: Davies, Evans
Glamorgan: Dean, Matthews
Bilston, Staffordshire: Dean
Shafton, Yorkshire: Miles, Moulson,
Wiltshire: Emery

Offline T1

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Re: Identification of uniform in (victorian?) group photo
« Reply #17 on: Thursday 19 April 18 13:55 BST (UK) »
Sadly I fear you got someone who doesn't know what they are talking about, as there is no way this photo is pre-1881.  The white "jampot" cuffs as referenced earlier in the thread by Regorian were introduced in that year.