Help with dates and identification of Olive J Bourke's condition, Australia

[nbourkie]

The first photo is of Olive J Bourke (née Wride) born 1891. I'm assuming from the outfit that this was taken in the 1910s but can anyone narrow it down further to a specific year?

The second one is of the Wride family and also includes Olive (on the far right). Her two youngest siblings were born in 1903 and 1905 and they look very little here so my guess is around 1907-1908, would this be correct?

Lastly, I remember my grandfather saying once that his nana Olive had a 'withered arm' and I've noticed she hides one of her arms in both photos. My knowledge on the attitudes of the time is limited and I'm curious to know what condition she may have had and what it would have been like for her living in the 1900s as a middle class Sydney woman with an abnormal limb.

Any help is much appreciated

Regards,
Naomi

[McGroger]

Hi. Naomi. Welcome to Rootschat.

Can’t help with the dating, but a possible cause of the withered arm may have been poliomyelitis.

Polio was a common childhood disease for two thirds of the twentieth century. While the disease had existed for hundreds of years, better sanitation in the late 19th/early 20th century meant that children didn’t “play in the dirt” so much and didn’t have the same immunity to it.

Children who survived the disease often had permanent symptoms such as impaired muscle development in one limb or another. I have a cousin who always wore long sleeved shirts to disguise his undeveloped arm. I was born 10 years later and benefitted from the new vaccine which was given to all school children from the later 1950s.

The disease had  reached epidemic proportions in the early 1950s before the vaccine was in widespread use. Polio has now all but disappeared.

The attitude to Olive’s affliction may have depended on how well she was loved and respected. Some would have considered her strong, a survivor. Others may have whispered behind her back.  Some may have pitied her. But it would have always been a good idea not to draw attention to it. She looks very healthy otherwise so, for her, it may have been an inconvenience rather than something that defined her life.

Peter

[Wiggy]

 At a guess, the first photo could be dated to around early 1900s - those huge hats are a bit of a give away I believe.   Maybe up to about 1910 - she does look a little older than 12-15 doesn't she.    I have a photo of my grandmother looking just like her (clothes, hair style etc) in the second photo - Gran was definitely taken early to mid 1900s, and born in 1892.

The second photo doesn't look so much as hiding her arm as just being there and her arm not in sight - but agree with Peter - it might have been polio - though you'd expect there to be more than one arm withered - often a whole side of the body was affected.    So maybe Polio
- or maybe just a 'withered/underdeveloped arm' - as you occasionally see ( e.g.if the baby has been in an odd position in utero possibly.  It does happen occasionally).

Wiggy

[Treetotal]

Hi and welcome to Rootschat...I would say around 1910 or a year or two either side of that date.
Carol

[nbourkie]

Hi. Naomi. Welcome to Rootschat.

Can’t help with the dating, but a possible cause of the withered arm may have been poliomyelitis.

Polio was a common childhood disease for two thirds of the twentieth century. While the disease had existed for hundreds of years, better sanitation in the late 19th/early 20th century meant that children didn’t “play in the dirt” so much and didn’t have the same immunity to it.

Children who survived the disease often had permanent symptoms such as impaired muscle development in one limb or another. I have a cousin who always wore long sleeved shirts to disguise his undeveloped arm. I was born 10 years later and benefitted from the new vaccine which was given to all school children from the later 1950s.

The disease had  reached epidemic proportions in the early 1950s before the vaccine was in widespread use. Polio has now all but disappeared.

The attitude to Olive’s affliction may have depended on how well she was loved and respected. Some would have considered her strong, a survivor. Others may have whispered behind her back.  Some may have pitied her. But it would have always been a good idea not to draw attention to it. She looks very healthy otherwise so, for her, it may have been an inconvenience rather than something that defined her life.

Peter

Hi Peter,
Thank you for the reply. I thought it could be Polio but I wasn't sure if it could affect just one limb or not so what you mentioned about your cousin is very interesting. How fortunate we are to have the vaccines that we do now.

I do agree with you that she looks quite healthy in the photos and from what my Grandfather told me, I believe she was well loved by her family

Naomi

[nbourkie]

At a guess, the first photo could be dated to around early 1900s - those huge hats are a bit of a give away I believe.   Maybe up to about 1910 - she does look a little older than 12-15 doesn't she.    I have a photo of my grandmother looking just like her (clothes, hair style etc) in the second photo - Gran was definitely taken early to mid 1900s, and born in 1892.

The second photo doesn't look so much as hiding her arm as just being there and her arm not in sight - but agree with Peter - it might have been polio - though you'd expect there to be more than one arm withered - often a whole side of the body was affected.    So maybe Polio
- or maybe just a 'withered/underdeveloped arm' - as you occasionally see ( e.g.if the baby has been in an odd position in utero possibly.  It does happen occasionally).

Wiggy

Hi Wiggy,

Thanks for replying. Yes I did notice the big hat although I think she looks more like 17+ in the first photo.

With the second photo, I may just be overthinking it after remembering what my Grandfather told me about her arm but interestingly, it does look like the same arm is hidden from view, doesn't it?

Naomi

[nbourkie]

Hi and welcome to Rootschat...I would say around 1910 or a year or two either side of that date.
Carol

Hi Carol,
Thank you, really appreciate the help

Naomi

[nbourkie]

Does anyone know why the mother's head and body position is the only one turned sideways? I've seen women do this in a few of the older photos. Did it have anything to do with modesty?

[Treetotal]

It looks like she may have been to release part of the dress her Husband is sitting on...or maybe she's not talking to him 

I have a friend who had polio in early infancy and her arm is withered and her shoulder slopes down slightly on that side.
Carol