Author Topic: Kersell Family from Hawick Scotland  (Read 887 times)

Offline rosball

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Re: Kersell Family from Hawick Scotland
« Reply #18 on: Tuesday 17 April 18 00:39 BST (UK) »
Surely you would still have searched for a marriage for John KESSELL, JM as it was evident from the births to the couple that this was his name.  Many of us did.   It seemed the sensible thing to do.

So I didn't waste your time at all!

Ros
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Offline Jamjar

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Re: Kersell Family from Hawick Scotland
« Reply #19 on: Tuesday 17 April 18 01:13 BST (UK) »
Here is the original Obit with the incorrect surname that led me to think that it was the wife of John Kersell. https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/226935634

The finding of an article with the correct spelling of her name showed that the paper had made and error.

Itís interesting to note that this, unrelated, family - Ann Sophia, John T and Beatrice are buried at Bendigo Cemetry with surname Kessell.

As an aside, I too have been accused by others of editing/adding information when I havenít. I think it has to do with how quickly someone views your post when you are promptly modifying it, almost immediately after posting it.

I think that all that is important here is that Ann Sophiaís family were eliminated as being connected and the matter is best put to rest.

Jamjar
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Offline majm

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Re: Kersell Family from Hawick Scotland
« Reply #20 on: Tuesday 17 April 18 01:14 BST (UK) »
Surely you would still have searched for a marriage for John KESSELL, JM as it was evident from the births to the couple that this was his name.  Many of us did.   It seemed the sensible thing to do.

So I didn't waste your time at all!

Ros

Are you advocating that each RChatter ought to duplicate each others searches ....  that does not seem sensible to me, and likely would NOT have lead to finding the 1902 death of an Agnes as promptly as actually occurred. 

There is a death registration INDEXED at Vic Bdm online for 1902 and for an Agnes KERSALL, #2389.   It is possible there's not a great deal of family history info on that registration as the parents names are indexed as 'unknown'. I am sure the lack of knowledge for that info points to this registration would likely be for an adult, likely an elderly adult.  However, it should give Agnes' age, and of course the burial details for her.  It may show that she was a married woman, and give info about her children.

JM
....

JM
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Offline ajjbc

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Re: Kersell Family from Hawick Scotland
« Reply #21 on: Tuesday 17 April 18 02:26 BST (UK) »
Rosball,
   The Kessell,Jones,Wells is not the same family I am researching...but that being said ,I appreciate all that is done..

Maj, Kessell/Hessell not mine..again thanks...I am also very aware that names get misspelled with by the person giving it or the one writing it.....name variations happen all the time.

Here is what I am finding: I have Agnes & John Kersel & their son Robert on the 1851 census in Rox.Scotland on the 1851.Agnes must have been pregnant with Margaret as this family of 4 arrived in Australia. Oct. 1852.
 Then John was born in c 1854,,mothers name Agnes
,Annie c 1857 ,
 James Oct 1868.,mothers name listed as Nancy.
Then John Kersel dies Nov 1 1890 at Moonamba.
Then an Obit in Apr 1906, read Ann Kersell (says been in Aust.45 years so 1906 minus 45 year is 1861 )wife of late John Kersell...so far so good...but then it says 3 daugs & 3 sons.
Yet,Robert,Margaret John & Annie were born before 1861....
   You know what...even the newspaper got and wrote it wrong....but I am sure you all can see why I question a few things.
    Again thanks for all the  work you all have done....I have done the same for many myself.
That is what we RootsChat people do...drive ourselves crazy.
  Cheers Ann

 
 
IRELAND: Algeo,Armstrong,Brick, ,Hendren/Hendron,
    Hopkins,Ramage,  <br  >
SCOTLAND: Aitchison,Armstrong,Bathgate,Blair,Bruce,Brunton,Clarke/Clerk,
 Dickson,Dobson,Dryden,Eaton,Gillie/Gillies Haliburton,  Hogg,Huggan,Kersel,Kidd/Kyd,Laidlaw,Miller,Notman,
Peacock, Prentice,Redpath,Richardson, Scobbie,Simson, Spiers/Speirs,Spottiswood,Tinline, Thorburn,Turnbull,Waddel,  Waldie ,Waugh.

Offline majm

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Re: Kersell Family from Hawick Scotland
« Reply #22 on: Tuesday 17 April 18 02:57 BST (UK) »
Please do not overlook the 1902 death for Agnes.

JM.
There is a death registration INDEXED at Vic Bdm online for 1902 and for an Agnes KERSALL, #2389.   It is possible there's not a great deal of family history info on that registration as the parents names are indexed as 'unknown'. I am sure the lack of knowledge for that info points to this registration would likely be for an adult, likely an elderly adult.  However, it should give Agnes' age, and of course the burial details for her.  It may show that she was a married woman, and give info about her children.

JM

Excellent JM and it led to the missing son James that I was going spare trying to find.

Funny how at the time one thinks one has tried all spelling options... ;)

1902 2389 KERSALL Agnes Place of death Mboro Hosp Age74

1903 2109 KERSALL Jas Place of death: Iwood H Age 35

The Kessell/Hessellís having nothing to do with the family. It was a misprint in a Trove Obit that started that line of though.

Jamjar

Robertís at Avoca Cemetery, but no others listed:

KERSEL Robert 24 Jun 1897 47 Avoca
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Send me a PM to seek my express permission to use any information I post. Wait for my reply, do not take for granted you have any authority to copy paste my words.
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Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Jamjar

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Re: Kersell Family from Hawick Scotland
« Reply #23 on: Tuesday 17 April 18 02:58 BST (UK) »
Iím a tad confused. You said daughter Margaret was born in Scotland and she is listed as -

1 14   OCT   ENG   4   B   BROOKSBY   1852   KERSEL, AGNES -

on the manifest.

So, Iím not sure why you say mother must have been pregnant. Or, do you mean pregnant at the time of the Ď51 census?

This is totally unrelated to your ancestral line. And now Iím wishing Iíd never found and posted the incorrect Trove Obit: ĎThen an Obit in Apr 1906, read Ann Kersell (says been in Aust.45 years so 1906 minus 45 year is 1861 )wife of late John Kersell...so far so good...but then it says 3 daugs & 3 sons.í

Jamjar
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Offline ajjbc

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Re: Kersell Family from Hawick Scotland
« Reply #24 on: Tuesday 17 April 18 03:27 BST (UK) »
I was speculating that Agnes Kersel, John's wife could have been expecting at the time of the 1851 census in Scotland,as it it was taken March 30 & 31 and that is why Baby Margaret did not show on that census,..but born after that date or early 1852
  It would then explain why the Kersel family of four (4) arrived in Australia in Oct 1852
Sorry, I did not explain that clear enough...........Ann
IRELAND: Algeo,Armstrong,Brick, ,Hendren/Hendron,
    Hopkins,Ramage,  <br  >
SCOTLAND: Aitchison,Armstrong,Bathgate,Blair,Bruce,Brunton,Clarke/Clerk,
 Dickson,Dobson,Dryden,Eaton,Gillie/Gillies Haliburton,  Hogg,Huggan,Kersel,Kidd/Kyd,Laidlaw,Miller,Notman,
Peacock, Prentice,Redpath,Richardson, Scobbie,Simson, Spiers/Speirs,Spottiswood,Tinline, Thorburn,Turnbull,Waddel,  Waldie ,Waugh.

Offline Jamjar

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Re: Kersell Family from Hawick Scotland
« Reply #25 on: Tuesday 17 April 18 03:28 BST (UK) »
I was speculating that Agnes Kersel, John's wife could have been expecting at the time of the 1851 census in Scotland,as it it was taken March 30 & 31 and that is why Baby Margaret did not show on that census,..but born after that date or early 1852
  It would then explain why the Kersel family of four (4) arrived in Australia in Oct 1852
Sorry, I did not explain that clear enough...........Ann

Yes, that makes sense, Ann.

Jamjar
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Offline ajjbc

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Re: Kersell Family from Hawick Scotland
« Reply #26 on: Tuesday 17 April 18 03:47 BST (UK) »
The death dates and ages of: Agnes died 1902 age 74, James died 1903 age 35 and Robert died 1897 age 47.... fit my research perfectly.
    Flowers to all for the great work.....
 Poor James Kersel had drinking problems per 1887 & 1897..Poor fellow...I have the write-ups
IRELAND: Algeo,Armstrong,Brick, ,Hendren/Hendron,
    Hopkins,Ramage,  <br  >
SCOTLAND: Aitchison,Armstrong,Bathgate,Blair,Bruce,Brunton,Clarke/Clerk,
 Dickson,Dobson,Dryden,Eaton,Gillie/Gillies Haliburton,  Hogg,Huggan,Kersel,Kidd/Kyd,Laidlaw,Miller,Notman,
Peacock, Prentice,Redpath,Richardson, Scobbie,Simson, Spiers/Speirs,Spottiswood,Tinline, Thorburn,Turnbull,Waddel,  Waldie ,Waugh.