Wrong Mother Recorded?

[Knight-Sunderland]

Hello,

I have a confusing situation.

My 4x Great Grandmother, Isabella Lill, was born on 16 FEB 1809 in Sunderland, Durham.

Her Baptism is recorded as such:

30 JUL 1809 Isabella Lill, born 16-Feb 1809, third daughter of William Lill (baker, native of Alford) & Ann Darling (native of South Lincolnshire)

There is a major issue however. When looking at the other records I have located with regards to her father, William Lill, his life story doesn't quite make sense:

BAPTISM RECORD - Alford, Lincolnshire

03 JAN 1776 - William Lill, son of John and Ann Lill

BAPTISM OF CHILD - Liverpool, Lancashire

20 MAY 1799 - Elizabeth Lill, daughter of William Lill and Isabella Stufford

BURIAL OF CHILD - Sunderland, Durham

17 JAN 1804 John Lyll [Lyall], of Baines Lane, age: 1 year 6 weeks, died 15 Jan 1804, daughter of William Lyll [Lyall] (baker) & Isabella his wife late Stafford

BAPTISM OF CHILD - Sunderland, Durham

27 OCT 1805 Hannah Lill, born 6-Apr 1797, first daughter of William Lill (baker, native of Alford, Lincolnshire) by his wife Isabella late Stafford (native of Sunderland)

BAPTISM OF CHILD - Sunderland, Durham

30 JUL 1809 Isabella Lill, born 16-Feb 1809, third daughter of William Lill (baker, native of Alford) & Ann Darling (native of South Lincolnshire)

1841 CENSUS - Kingston Upon Hull, South Yorkshire

Garden Street
William LILL, age 67, Baker, not born in county
Isabella LILL, age 66, not born in county

Isabella's death is recorded Q2 1845 in Kingston Upon Hull

1851 CENSUS - Kington Upon Hull, South Yorkshire

28 Collin Street
William LILL, Head, age 75, Green Grocer, born Alford, Lincolnshire
Ann BOOTH, Daughter, age 50, Green Grocer, born Kingston Upon Hull

William Lill died Q4 1852 in Kingston Upon Hull, aged 76.

None of this really makes any sense. The main issue is that William's wife is clearly Isabella Stafford prior to 1809, suddenly Ann Darling in 1809, then back to Isabella in 1841. I cannot find a marriage record for William Lill, to either anyone named Isabella Stafford or Ann Darling.

Could it be possible that the wrong mother was recorded in 1809? Could he have had an affair with Ann Darling and Isabella was their lovechild? If that is the case, why is Isabella listed as the couples 'third' daughter? A tricky situation!

Anyone have any similar scenarios in their tree? Any idea what could be going on?

Thanks!

Jack

[avm228]

Yes I think it looks very much like an error in the maternal details, especially given the “third daughter” thing as well as the fact that the child was named Isabella.  Perhaps the vicar had been tucking into the communion wine! Often the registers were written up later from notes taken at the time, so a smudge or inkblot on the original notes could cause problems.

[brigidmac]

could Ann Darling have been the grandmother ? if she took the baby to be baptised with her son the girls father  could explain vicars mix up

whaT DO THE BIRTH RECORDS SAY  ?

[Rosinish]

Hi Jack,

I will be honest...

I haven't had time to scan through your info. in full but have you tried doing a search in the same area, same era (with a window of 5 yrs either side) with the mother as Ann Darling but leaving husband's name out to see what pops up?

Baptisms were performed at home (maybe not all)? & info. written in a notebook which was later transcribed into the 'Parish' book & if the notebook didn't have ruled/lined pages then the writings could be off (not in a straight line) & errors made when in a hurry to insert all details which would often be weeks later i.e. errors very likely?

Brigid, I thought for the era concerned it would only be Parish Baptism Records available & no birth records as such?

I have OPRs (Scotland) which do give a birth date on Baptisms (if available) but no actual birth records?

Annie

[JenB]

Are the records you mention taken the original Parish Records or from the Bishops Transcripts? If the latter, have you checked the originals to make sure that they are the same?

Sometimes errors were made when the entries were transcribed from the originals.

[emeltom]

From the Northumberland and Durham FHS Marriage Index there is a marriage in Monkwearmouth for an Isabella Stafford to a James Smith 4 June 1793.
There is also a marriage 27 September 1796 for an Isabella Smith to a William Lill at Sunderland Holy Trinity.

Emeltom

[Knight-Sunderland]

Thanks to everyone who has replied, everything I have read has been extremely helpful.

Yes Annie, I have conducted a search of the records and Isabella Lill is the only child born to an 'Ann Darling' in the entirety of County Durham as far as the records go. This made me evern more confused!

However when I considered Brigid's point about Ann Darling possibly being the grandmother, it made me realise something. William Lill's mother was called Ann DARWIN - perhaps the source of the possible mix up? William Lill was asked for the mother's name, and for some reason, gave his own mother's name by mistake (with the maiden name either given incorrectly or written down incorrectly)? DARWIN and DARLING sound plausible mix ups I think.

When I also take into account Emeltom's discovery about the marriage record (thanks ever so much for that), it proves there was definitely a marriage to Isabella Stafford and that was definitely her maiden name. I also notice on Ancestry DNA, that I have at least three matches who have relatives with the surname STAFFORD from 18th Century Sunderland.

I think you may have all helped solve this mystery I've had for nine years, in less that 24 hours!

Still may need to to a few more checks first of course, don't want to dive in to an incorrect line!

Thanks very much

Jack