Author Topic: The Case of the Mysterious Bride!  (Read 2054 times)

Offline DavidJP

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The Case of the Mysterious Bride!
« on: Sunday 22 April 18 20:43 BST (UK) »
Hi all,

I am putting this request here on the England board as it covers both the counties of London & Middlesex as well as Surrey.

I am helping a friend with their family history & have hit a bit of a brickwall! I can find absolutely nothing of an ancestor prior to her marriage! Nada! Zilch!

The facts are as follows:

Marie Blanche Catherine Davies (abt 1861-1937) married Robert John Johnstone on 21st Dec 1879 at St Stephen, Rochester Row, Westminster (St George Hanover Square reg dist). On the marriage record she gives her age as 18, address as 183, Vauxhall Bridge Road & her father as Walter Davies a Coachman.

On the 1881 Census they are at 28, Gatliff Buildings, St George Hanover Square (RG11/109/51/27) and gives her place of birth as Brixton, Surrey. Marie died on 1st Jan 1937 age 75 in the Woolwich reg dist area.

Prior to her 1879 marriage nothing, she seems to just appear out of nowhere! No birth index record, no baptism & I am unable to find her or any of her family on the 1861 & 1871 censuses.

If anyone is able assist with this I would be grateful as this is seriously bugging me now! ;D

Many thanks in advance.

Kind regards

David
Aitcheson, Aldred, Batty, Bauer, Bone, Brewer, Dean, Doyle, Durant, Fife, Finney, Gibson, Graham/Grayham, Hall, Harrison, Hersey, Hill, Holliss, Hudson, Hussey, Insley, Kelsey, King, Laver, Longmore, Luke, Mellor, Newman, North, Parker, Phillips, Porter, Read, Robinson, Rowel, Spink, Sproxton, Steer, Stevenson, Tanner, Witty/Whitty, Warburton, Wood.
(For more information on the above surnames please check the Surname Interest Table below.)

Offline avm228

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Re: The Case of the Mysterious Bride!
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 22 April 18 20:45 BST (UK) »
Who were the marriage witnesses?
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline avm228

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Re: The Case of the Mysterious Bride!
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 22 April 18 20:46 BST (UK) »
Birthplace is France, per 1891 census.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline DavidJP

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Re: The Case of the Mysterious Bride!
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 22 April 18 20:57 BST (UK) »
Hi avm228,

Many thanks for your replies, very much appreciated indeed.

This family have been causing me plenty of headaches already! ::) Good Grief! Born in France, why then state Brixton on the previous Census! Grrrr.

As regards the witnesses on the marriage they were:

Ellen Lewis (Formerly Johnstone, Nee' Wade), Robert John Johnstone's mother & a George Frederick something, I can't make the surname out unfortunately!

My thanks again for your assistance.

Kind regards

David
Aitcheson, Aldred, Batty, Bauer, Bone, Brewer, Dean, Doyle, Durant, Fife, Finney, Gibson, Graham/Grayham, Hall, Harrison, Hersey, Hill, Holliss, Hudson, Hussey, Insley, Kelsey, King, Laver, Longmore, Luke, Mellor, Newman, North, Parker, Phillips, Porter, Read, Robinson, Rowel, Spink, Sproxton, Steer, Stevenson, Tanner, Witty/Whitty, Warburton, Wood.
(For more information on the above surnames please check the Surname Interest Table below.)


Offline groom

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Re: The Case of the Mysterious Bride!
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 22 April 18 20:57 BST (UK) »
Agree, avm228 - place of birth in all the censuses is France, so is pretty constant. 1881 gives her as British Subject France and 1911 says France.
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline avm228

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Re: The Case of the Mysterious Bride!
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 22 April 18 21:01 BST (UK) »
She is actually recorded twice in 1881 I think: once with her husband and once without.

There is a 12 June 1861 marriage at the English Episcopal Church in Paris as follows, which may or may not be relevant:

Walter Davies, of Aigburth, Lancs, bachelor

Ellen (or Helen) Read, of Ramsgate, Kent, spinster  - signs as Helen.

Married with the consent of the Ambassador.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline groom

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Re: The Case of the Mysterious Bride!
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 22 April 18 21:16 BST (UK) »
Possible birth? No parents or other info I'm afraid.

From Consular/Overseas Birth registrations
Mary Catherine   Davies b Paris, France
Birth year   1860-65
Volume   3 Page   603
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline DavidJP

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Re: The Case of the Mysterious Bride!
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 22 April 18 21:54 BST (UK) »
Hi avm228 & Jan,

many thanks indeed for your replies, very much appreciated.

How have I missed all these records! ::) Its almost embarrassing!

avm228, where is she on her own in 1881 & what's the reference please? Thanks for that Paris marriage record much appreciated.

Jan, many thanks for the birth registration info, much appreciated. I think that has to be her, birth & marriage both occurring in Paris!

When on earth did they come back to England then? Also, what on earth were they doing in Paris or France in general in the first place?

Many thanks for all help so far, all much appreciated.

Kind regards

David
Aitcheson, Aldred, Batty, Bauer, Bone, Brewer, Dean, Doyle, Durant, Fife, Finney, Gibson, Graham/Grayham, Hall, Harrison, Hersey, Hill, Holliss, Hudson, Hussey, Insley, Kelsey, King, Laver, Longmore, Luke, Mellor, Newman, North, Parker, Phillips, Porter, Read, Robinson, Rowel, Spink, Sproxton, Steer, Stevenson, Tanner, Witty/Whitty, Warburton, Wood.
(For more information on the above surnames please check the Surname Interest Table below.)

Offline avm228

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Re: The Case of the Mysterious Bride!
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 22 April 18 22:26 BST (UK) »
The potential “other” sighting in 1881 is as Mary B Johnstone, 20, married, born France (British subject) in service to a Cecelia Pollard in Westminster.

RG11/109/68/10.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)