Toal, Toule, Toil, Toll, Toole, O'Toole... all Antrim

[Sherry Campbell]

I had been stuck on just my Thomas Toal, born between 1836 and 1845 depending on which record, who married in Canada and said he was from County Antrim, Ireland and his parents were John Toal and Jane Thomsom. Then I found a marriage, also in Canada in 1863, for John "Toil" born about 1835 in the only 3 records found on him.. and he says born in Ireland and parents John "Toil" and Jane Thomson. That family was hard to locate because they were in French speaking areas and the officials recorded the marriage as Toil and then Census as Tool.. some of them now use O'Toole.
So I had my DNA done and started coming up with other matches.. with same parents, John Toal & Jane Thomson... three women, Martha born about 1834, Mary born about 1840, and Elizabeth born about 1842. Martha married a John Stewart/Stuart in Ballymena, Antrim, Ireland in 1855 and they moved to Massachusetts, USA. Mary married Robert Nimmons in 1861 in Ballymena, Antrim, Ireland and they moved to Lanark, Scotland and Elizabeth moved to Scotland first and married Alexander Nimmons in 1861. Robert and Alexander Nimmons were brothers. All of the marriages and deaths list either names Toal or Toole but usually Toal. Some of their family ended up in Massachusetts, USA and New Hampshire, USA
Pretty sure there is also Jane Toal born about 1839 who married a different Alexander Nimmons in 1862 in Ballymena, Antrim, Ireland and then their children are all recorded as being born in Randalstown, Antrim, Ireland. I also connect through DNA to another family who has a Francis Toal and a Rose Toal but we have no idea who their parents are.
Have been searching for 20 years for information on John Toal and Jane Thomson but other than them being listed as parents of... I find nothing. Elizabeth's marriage in 1861 says her father is deceased but that is the only tidbit of info found at all. Does anyone have any advice or any information on where or how else I can find them and any other children them may have had?
Thank you in advance and I really appreciate any help/advice/info that anyone can provide.
Sherry

[Elwyn Soutter]

Statutory death registration only started in Ireland in 1864 so if John Toal was dead by 1861 tracing his death will be difficult, unless he happens to have a gravestone (and you can find it).

Your Jane Toal who married Alexander Nimmons appears to have been living in Lurgan West, just outside Randalstown, in the 1860s. I can see a death there for a Jane Toal on 26.2.1865, aged 66, who was the widow of a farmer. So might that be Jane Toal’s widowed mother? The informant for that death is Jane Nimmons of Leitrim townland.

Looking at Griffiths Valuation for Lurgan West in 1862, I see a John Tole listed. He had plot 17 which was a 23 acre farm. Looking at the Valuation revision records, John’s name is deleted and replaced by Alexander Tole (no date) but by 1864 the tenant is George McClure. So that’s broadly consistent with John having died by 1861. (Griffiths dates were often out by a year or so). Today that farm’s off Mountshalgus Lane, leading down to Randalstown forest.

The surname Toal is fairly common in the general area, especially around Toome. John Toal of Lurgan West is listed as farming there in the tithe applotment records for 1834.

If you look at the 2 marriage certificates for Robert Nimmons & Mary Toal (15.6.1861) and Alexander NIommons & Jane Toal (16.7.1862) it should give you the brides townlands, and fathers names and occupations. If that is Lurgan West, and John Toal, farmer, I would say you have traced your family. You can view the certificates for £2.50 each on the GRONI website.

The Lurgan West farm will have been rented from Lord O’Neill at Shane’s Castle. Their estate records for 1829 & 1831 are in PRONI (T1024/1 & 2) and usually list the relevant leases, and when they were granted. So it often shows how long a family had been farming there.

[Sherry Campbell]

Oh wow thanks. I do know John Toal was a farmer because Elizabeth Toal's marriage and death list him that way... and I know Mary, Martha and Jane all have John listed as their father but no mother on marriage in Ireland.. Martha and Mary both have their mother listed on death records and second marriages though so I know I have them as for sure children of John and Jane...
As for the GRONI site.. I have to figure it out... I tried earlier today and couldn't find anything. Would the marriage be an actual record with that info or just the same thing they give on ancestry and family search? And where could I see/order this death of Jane Toal?
Again.. thank you so much..

[aghadowey]

Mary married Robert Nimmons in 1861 in Ballymena, Antrim, Ireland and they moved to Lanark, Scotland and Elizabeth moved to Scotland first and married Alexander Nimmons in 1861. Robert and Alexander Nimmons were brothers.

Maybe not-
Extract shows Alexander Nimmons, son of John, married Jane Toal, daughter of John
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGXZ-KPS
and
Robert Nimmons, son of Robert, married Mary Toal, daughter of John
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FG6Y-DTQ

[Elwyn Soutter]

The certificates on the GRONI site are the originals, not transcripts. It’s vital to view them to get the brides’ addresses. Otherwise you are not going to be able to confirm this is the right family. All 3 marriages (including Martha Toal to John Stewart on 17.3.55) are there, as well as the death I referred to. You can view the original certificates on-line on the GRONI website, using the “search registrations” option:

https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk

You will need to open an account and buy some credits. It costs £2.50 (sterling) to a view a certificate.

Tradition was to marry in the bride’s church which should be on the certificate (unless it was a Registry Office marriage). That church may be the place to look for the girls’ baptisms and that of any siblings.

[Sherry Campbell]

Maybe not-
Extract shows Alexander Nimmons, son of John, married Jane Toal, daughter of John
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGXZ-KPS
and
Robert Nimmons, son of Robert, married Mary Toal, daughter of John
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FG6Y-DTQ

[/color]

There were two Alexander Nimmons... Alexander Nimmons, son of Robert Nimmons and Mary Silton (sp?), married Elizabeth Toal, daughter of John Toal and Jane Thomson, on September 20, 1861 in Patrick, Lanarkshire, Scotland. This Alexander died before 1884 in Scotland and Elizabeth married James Blaney who was also from Ireland

[Sherry Campbell]

Thank you Elwyn... I already knew for sure that Mary Toal was the daughter of John Toal and Jane Thomson so I checked to see if the record showed where she was born and it says Residence at time of marriage was Ballytrasna Drummaul and the father was John Toal, Farmer. Witnesses were Alexander Nimmons & Elizabeth Toal.
So then I checked Jane Toal's marriage to the other Alexander Nimmons because I was almost positive she was also their daughter and that record says the same... Residence at time of marriage was Ballytrasna Drummaul and the father was John Toal, Farmer. Witnesses were Robert Nimmons & Mary Toal. So that pretty much satisfies that... and since Jane Nimmons was the informant on Jane Toal's death certificate I think its safe to assume that that is Jane Thomson Toal... at least I have her death date and approximate year of birth.
It is too bad the GRONI site doesn't let you download the records for the credits... the enhanced for 1 credit really doesn't tell you anything that ancestry doesn't tell you and the Full record is 5 credits and you can't download or save them to view later. I love the ScotlandPeople site for those options...

[Elwyn Soutter]

Ballytresna is about a mile out of Randalstown, on the Portglenone Rd. So about 2 miles from Lurgan West which is off to the south of the town. There are no Toal households there in Griffiths in 1862, nor in the Valuation Revision records that follow.

The only Toal farm in the parish in both the tithes (1834) and Griffiths (1862) is John Toal in Lurgan West, so I suspect that’s where your family had their farm even if they were living in Ballytresna in the early 1860s.

http://www.irishgenealogyhub.com/antrim/tithe-applotments/drummaul-parish.php#.Wt3FZRR9eg0

At least 1 of the marriages appears to have been in Ballymena registry office, often a sign of a mixed marriage. Most of the Toal families around Randalstown were RC, so would have attended Drummaul RC church in Randalstown. There is a graveyard there that dates from around 1830. Prior to that families would mostly have used Old Drummaul graveyard or Cranfield or perhaps Cargin.

I had a look in the Ordnance Survey memoirs for Drummaul parish (1838), under emigration, it mentions an Eliza Toole, aged 40, RC, from Lurgan West who had gone to live in Glasgow in 1837. Presumably she was part of this same Toal family.

The memoirs comment: “Those who have emigrated for the last 3 years were chiefly labourers and small farmers, with a few tradesmen, who could command little or no capital, but emigrated to seek in a foreign land that comfort their own country no longer affords. All good characters.”

[Sherry Campbell]

Thanks again for more to look into...  I'm thinking that maybe after John Toal died some of the girls went to work/stay elsewhere... marriage records aren't giving their place of birth.. just their residence at time of marriage. And three of the marriages give Ballymena as the place of... and I don't think my branch of Toal was R.C. Thomas and John both say they're Presbyterian on their marriage records and I'm pretty sure I've seen one of the sisters claim same thing on a record... census or child's birth.. don't remember right off. The other Toal family with Francis and Rose in it that my DNA is connecting to were R.C. so I'm not sure how they connect to mine.