Author Topic: know the date of death but can't find  (Read 653 times)

Offline atmartinas

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Re: know the date of death but can't find
« Reply #18 on: Tuesday 24 April 18 12:50 BST (UK) »
I see where you are coming from My Luck but as much as I want it to say married I am afraid I have to agree with Heywood it does say Widower to my eye. Still despite that not matching I feel that I can't dismiss this record mainly because of the Townland and then the age matches too.

I wrote the above and then I decided to check to see if I could find Michael Culleton in another Ballytarsna as with many townlands there are more than one in Wexford.
Now I am really confused for what I found;
Census 1901. http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Wexford/Castle_Talbot/Ballytarsna/1791898/

Looks like my Michael was in two places and was 46/47! ???

 Now I am not sure what kind of arrangement they had as when son Michael was born address was given as Shannon for baby and Mother but Ballytarsna for father.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1888/02513/1931578.pdf

They were married in https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1884/10904/5983171.pdf1884
Am I mixing people up? I started off with info from my Aunts research she knew the Daughter of my couple and would have got info from her. I am sure my ancestor Anastasia from Ballyboy married Mick Culleton and that she was a shopkeeper in Enniscorthy.
But it looks to me like he is on both Census. Help?
M
Roche Wexford/USA
Sinnott 2 families Ardcavan Wexford/USA and Boolaboy.
Cullen Ballyknockan  Wexford/ USA
O'Leary Wexford
Leacy Wexford /New York
O'Dwyer Tipperary
Hayes Tipperary
Wall Tipperary
Cormac Tipperary
Shanahan Tipperary

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Offline myluck!

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Re: know the date of death but can't find
« Reply #19 on: Tuesday 24 April 18 13:58 BST (UK) »
I only came across something similar recently for the 1911 census but they are dated which showed one was completed on the 21st of the month and the other on the 27th. The lead me to believe that the person had travelled to their family in the in-between and as literacy was an issue the constable completing the form possibly wrote down all present on both occasions rather than on the specific date for the census return.
This could also be the case here....
Kearney & Bourke/ Johns & Fox/ Mannion & Finan/ Donohoe & Curley
Byrne [Carthy], Keeffe/ Germaine, Butler/ McDermott, Giblin/ Lally, Dolan
Toole, Doran; Dowling, Grogan/ Reilly, Burke; Warren, Kidd [Lawless]/ Smith, Scally; Mangan, Rodgers/ Fahy, Calday; Staunton, Miller
Further generations:
Brophy Coleman Eathorn(e) Fahy Fitzpatrick Geraghty Haverty Keane Keogh Nowlan Rowe Walder

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Offline atmartinas

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Re: know the date of death but can't find
« Reply #20 on: Tuesday 24 April 18 21:25 BST (UK) »
I only came across something similar recently for the 1911 census but they are dated which showed one was completed on the 21st of the month and the other on the 27th. The lead me to believe that the person had travelled to their family in the in-between and as literacy was an issue the constable completing the form possibly wrote down all present on both occasions rather than on the specific date for the census return.
This could also be the case here....
Both done on 31st March!
Roche Wexford/USA
Sinnott 2 families Ardcavan Wexford/USA and Boolaboy.
Cullen Ballyknockan  Wexford/ USA
O'Leary Wexford
Leacy Wexford /New York
O'Dwyer Tipperary
Hayes Tipperary
Wall Tipperary
Cormac Tipperary
Shanahan Tipperary

Offline myluck!

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Re: know the date of death but can't find
« Reply #21 on: Thursday 26 April 18 08:02 BST (UK) »
The date for the census was March 31st but it took several days for the enumerators to go house to house and collect the data and in many cases fill in the forms for those who were not able themselves.  In 1911 these forms were dated however in 1901 I don't see dates.

The 1901 census at house 5 in Ballytarsna (Castle Talbot, Wexford) was enumerated by Edmond LAMASY(?) whereas the census at house 11 in Slaney Street (Enniscorthy Urban, Wexford) was enumerated by Francis Coughlan and although the people completing the forms could read and write an error could have occured.

Kearney & Bourke/ Johns & Fox/ Mannion & Finan/ Donohoe & Curley
Byrne [Carthy], Keeffe/ Germaine, Butler/ McDermott, Giblin/ Lally, Dolan
Toole, Doran; Dowling, Grogan/ Reilly, Burke; Warren, Kidd [Lawless]/ Smith, Scally; Mangan, Rodgers/ Fahy, Calday; Staunton, Miller
Further generations:
Brophy Coleman Eathorn(e) Fahy Fitzpatrick Geraghty Haverty Keane Keogh Nowlan Rowe Walder

Offline atmartinas

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Re: know the date of death but can't find
« Reply #22 on: Thursday 26 April 18 11:08 BST (UK) »
Thanks My Luck. I am sure it must be like you say it took a few days to complete and he was mistakenly put on both! The family grave was not on Cantwell so I asked my sister to look in Oulart. The weather was too bad this week so she hasn't found it yet.
 I am left with a man who according to the records (Records I believe to be him), was in 2 places when he was alive and died as a widow leaving a living wife behind! There I was trying to firm up loose ends so I could enlighten my DNA match about her Ancestors and all I have is a lot of uncertainty :o

M
Roche Wexford/USA
Sinnott 2 families Ardcavan Wexford/USA and Boolaboy.
Cullen Ballyknockan  Wexford/ USA
O'Leary Wexford
Leacy Wexford /New York
O'Dwyer Tipperary
Hayes Tipperary
Wall Tipperary
Cormac Tipperary
Shanahan Tipperary

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: know the date of death but can't find
« Reply #23 on: Thursday 26 April 18 23:37 BST (UK) »
I've found 3 examples of people being counted twice on an English census. 1 involved 2 people, woman and her grandson. Understandable unless the head of every household completed the form at exactly midnight on Census Day.  :)

Offline Wexflyer

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Re: know the date of death but can't find
« Reply #24 on: Wednesday 23 May 18 13:11 BST (UK) »
The gift of bilocation is usually grounds for sainthood.  ;)

That said I have encountered this on both Irish and US census returns.  No more strange than those who are absent entirely. For example, he could have easily visited his mother on the day of the census, or the day the policeman visited, and got on the return that way.
BRENNANx2 Davidstown/Taghmon,Ballybrennan; COOPER St.Helens; CREAN Raheennaskeagh/Ballywalter; COSGRAVE Castlebridge; CULLEN Lady's Island; CULLETON Forth Commons;CURRAN Hillbrook; DOYLE Clonee/Tombrack; FOX Knockbrandon; FURLONG Moortown; HAYESx2 Walsheslough/Wexford; McGILL Litter; MORRIS Forth Commons; PIERCE Lady's Island; POTTS Bennettstown; REDMOND Ballygarrett; ROCHEx2 Wexford; ROCHFORD Ballysampson/Ballyhit; SHERIDAN Monadurtlow; SINNOTT Wexford; SMYTH Gerry/Oulart; WALSH Kilrane/Wexford

Offline atmartinas

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Re: know the date of death but can't find
« Reply #25 on: Monday 28 May 18 18:03 BST (UK) »
The gift of bilocation is usually grounds for sainthood.  ;)

That said I have encountered this on both Irish and US census returns.  No more strange than those who are absent entirely. For example, he could have easily visited his mother on the day of the census, or the day the policeman visited, and got on the return that way.
;D I will never know, maybe I should change his title to saint and attach both census records! ;D ;D
Roche Wexford/USA
Sinnott 2 families Ardcavan Wexford/USA and Boolaboy.
Cullen Ballyknockan  Wexford/ USA
O'Leary Wexford
Leacy Wexford /New York
O'Dwyer Tipperary
Hayes Tipperary
Wall Tipperary
Cormac Tipperary
Shanahan Tipperary