Author Topic: Help identifying some WW1 uniform pieces  (Read 624 times)

Offline ksinclair

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Help identifying some WW1 uniform pieces
« on: Wednesday 25 April 18 00:49 BST (UK) »
Hello everyone,

I would love any help you could give me in identifying these items.

By researching some of the heraldry on the first jacket I can see that the colour patch indicates 5th division Australian Army Service Corps, and the two "Order of the Bath" pins on each sleeve might indicate it belonged to a lieutenant. Other than this, I'm a bit lost finding any more information. I'd love to hear what anyone else might know.

I also have two pairs of pants, a hat, and another jacket with some interesting damage, particularly on the back.

Unfortunately, I don't know the name of the person or people they belonged to.

I can see this forum is mostly dedicated to British and Irish family history research, however I was struggling to find an active Australian forum that I could post this on. If anyone knows somewhere more suitable, let me know.

Looking forward to hearing what you think.


Link to view the items:

https://flic.kr/s/aHsmin2N9y

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Offline jim1

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Re: Help identifying some WW1 uniform pieces
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 25 April 18 12:22 BST (UK) »
This is what the LLT says about the 5th. Div.
http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/order-of-battle-of-divisions/5th-australian-division/
His ribbon bar includes the British War & Victory Medals but I can't identify the first in the trio as yet.
No 14/15 Star so not overseas until at least 1916.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

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Offline philipsearching

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Re: Help identifying some WW1 uniform pieces
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 25 April 18 13:59 BST (UK) »
Greetings, and a warm welcome to Rootschat.

You are correct in the identification of the jacket insignia as a 1st Lieutenant in the Australian army.

Like jim1 I haven't yet identified the first medal ribbon.  The order of precedence for medals is: chivalry/gallantry, campaign, foreign.  So the first ribbon should be either gallantry or campaign before 1916 - but I haven't found it yet.  It isn't the 1911 coronation medal or any of the campaign medals on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_awards_and_decorations_of_the_United_Kingdom (but wiki is not definitive!).  We will keep hunting.

I am wondering if the damage to the tunic could have been caused by barbed wire - it doesn't look like bullet holes.

The strengthening patches on the trouser legs could suggest a horseman - but someone with more knowledge than me would need to confirm this.

Philip
Census information is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Towcester/Weedon - ALLEN, BASFORD, MAY       Fakenham - WILLIAMSON       Hempton - WRIGHT, LOVELL       Bethnal Green - MONKS and LARCHER
Southwark - MOUNT, BOWBRICK        Clonakilty to Southwark -  CRISPIN      Lambeth - LYON       Hoxton - WALTERS     Gwennap - JAMES, GRAY, TREWARTHA       Antrim - CORDNER, SANDYS         Peru - SOTELO, MOREY, BASELLI

Online ShaunJ

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Re: Help identifying some WW1 uniform pieces
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 25 April 18 14:36 BST (UK) »
The first medal ribbon appears to have been partially coloured in. Could it be Military Medal with some blue ink added?
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline jim1

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Re: Help identifying some WW1 uniform pieces
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 25 April 18 14:40 BST (UK) »
good spot Shaun.
MM's only went to Other Ranks so maybe he was an NCO prior to being made up.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Online ShaunJ

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Re: Help identifying some WW1 uniform pieces
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 25 April 18 14:43 BST (UK) »
Quote
MM's only went to Other Ranks so maybe he was an NCO prior to being made up.

That must be the case if I'm right about the MM
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline philipsearching

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Re: Help identifying some WW1 uniform pieces
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 25 April 18 15:40 BST (UK) »
The first medal ribbon appears to have been partially coloured in. Could it be Military Medal with some blue ink added?

I had wondered about that, but couldn't see why it would have been done.  My other thought was the George V coronation medal with white or silver stripes added, but I can't find any information about whether this was common practice.

I think if ksinclair could carefully lift the ribbon to confirm if the stripes were originally white this would provide the answer.  If we have an Australian 1st Lieutenant who was awarded the MM before becoming an officer we might even be able to identify him - particularly as the label give chest 38" and height 5'9"
Census information is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Towcester/Weedon - ALLEN, BASFORD, MAY       Fakenham - WILLIAMSON       Hempton - WRIGHT, LOVELL       Bethnal Green - MONKS and LARCHER
Southwark - MOUNT, BOWBRICK        Clonakilty to Southwark -  CRISPIN      Lambeth - LYON       Hoxton - WALTERS     Gwennap - JAMES, GRAY, TREWARTHA       Antrim - CORDNER, SANDYS         Peru - SOTELO, MOREY, BASELLI

Offline jim1

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Re: Help identifying some WW1 uniform pieces
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 25 April 18 16:15 BST (UK) »
The Coronation Medal wouldn't have taken precedence over the BW & V Medals so I think MM is right.
Over 100,000 MM's were awarded in WW1. If you say around 10% went to the AIF  then that's 10,000 records to look at...over to you!
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline ksinclair

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Re: Help identifying some WW1 uniform pieces
« Reply #8 on: Friday 27 April 18 04:11 BST (UK) »
Hi Jim, Philip and Shaun.

Thank you for your help so far.

I've lifted the ribbon and the stripes were indeed white originally.

I have asked a family member about the uniform, and there was originally a medal attached to the ribbon band, I was told it has a connection to King George V, however I'm not sure of the significance of this. The family member is happy to return the medal to the uniform so I'll include some photos in the next few days.

I should include some background information - The uniform was found in a family members storage when they passed away some years ago. The name of the person the uniform originally belonged to was possibly "Richards", although we are not completely sure of this. I'm hoping to get some more information soon.



Thanks again for all your help.


Kate.