Author Topic: Where else do I go?  (Read 4850 times)

Offline PMILLS

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Where else do I go?
« on: Wednesday 25 April 18 02:26 BST (UK) »
I have been looking for my Grandfathers WW2 records or information.
Pat (Patrick ) Mills, born 1/2/1905, Gortmellia,Knocknalower,mayo, Ireland. ( Death cert says 1904)
I have applied for his records at the APC twice with both dates with no luck.He severed with the Blackcats, I have a photo that shows him in uniform with the cat.He never spoke of the war to me(Grandson) and we were close until his death.Two of his children are still alive and in their 80s,they say he was in the Royal Engineers.He never claimed his medals and I would like to get them in the family before its to late.I have found someone I thought was him and so did my uncles but the APC said the dates didn't match.My Grandfather moved to New Zealand from Glasgow in the 1950'sish and worked on building dam's,its ANZAC day here in New Zealand today,two years ago I started this search which I thought would be fast and easy and my uncle's could Parade my Grandfathers medals along with the next generations.I have no idea where to go next,I would be very thankful for any advice.
Patrick Mills ( named after my Grandfather )

Offline iluleah

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Re: Where else do I go?
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 25 April 18 07:37 BST (UK) »
H and welcome to rootschat  ;D

This is how you apply for the records which are held by the Ministry of Defence (MOD).
https://www.gov.uk/get-copy-military-service-records
Leicestershire:Chamberlain, Dakin, Wilkinson, Moss, Cook, Welland, Dobson, Roper,Palfreman, Squires, Hames, Goddard, Topliss, Twells,Bacon.
Northamps:Sykes, Harris, Rice,Knowles.
Rutland:Clements, Dalby, Osbourne, Durance, Smith,Christian, Royce, Richardson,Oakham, Dewey,Newbold,Cox,Chamberlaine,Brow, Cooper, Bloodworth,Clarke
Durham/Yorks:Woodend, Watson,Parker, Dowser
Suffolk/Norfolk:Groom, Coleman, Kemp, Barnard, Alden,Blomfield,Smith,Howes,Knight,Kett,Fryston
Lincolnshire:Clements, Woodend

Offline PMILLS

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Re: Where else do I go?
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 26 April 18 06:43 BST (UK) »
Thanks,but I have done so two times with the birth dates I had as stated above with no luck

Offline iluleah

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Re: Where else do I go?
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 26 April 18 17:23 BST (UK) »
Thanks,but I have done so two times with the birth dates I had as stated above with no luck
You said the APC  ??? So.... Army Personnel Centre??? When you meant the MOD

So you need to apply and get a copy of his birth certificate to give you the correct registered date of birth.
This may help you understand why he never spoke about his service http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16287211 and maybe you can find other information here about him https://www.forces-war-records.co.uk/units/4981/royal-engineers/
Leicestershire:Chamberlain, Dakin, Wilkinson, Moss, Cook, Welland, Dobson, Roper,Palfreman, Squires, Hames, Goddard, Topliss, Twells,Bacon.
Northamps:Sykes, Harris, Rice,Knowles.
Rutland:Clements, Dalby, Osbourne, Durance, Smith,Christian, Royce, Richardson,Oakham, Dewey,Newbold,Cox,Chamberlaine,Brow, Cooper, Bloodworth,Clarke
Durham/Yorks:Woodend, Watson,Parker, Dowser
Suffolk/Norfolk:Groom, Coleman, Kemp, Barnard, Alden,Blomfield,Smith,Howes,Knight,Kett,Fryston
Lincolnshire:Clements, Woodend


Offline ShaunJ

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Re: Where else do I go?
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 26 April 18 17:54 BST (UK) »
This looks to be the birth registration https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1905/01791/1702918.pdf

It's possible that his father gave a false date of birth if  he was a bit late registering it (to avoid a penalty).
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline iluleah

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Re: Where else do I go?
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 26 April 18 22:57 BST (UK) »
This looks to be the birth registration https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1905/01791/1702918.pdf

It's possible that his father gave a false date of birth if  he was a bit late registering it (to avoid a penalty).

If that is him, then this may be him in the 1911 http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai002974464/ or maybe not as wifes name was Anne not Mary as on cert
Leicestershire:Chamberlain, Dakin, Wilkinson, Moss, Cook, Welland, Dobson, Roper,Palfreman, Squires, Hames, Goddard, Topliss, Twells,Bacon.
Northamps:Sykes, Harris, Rice,Knowles.
Rutland:Clements, Dalby, Osbourne, Durance, Smith,Christian, Royce, Richardson,Oakham, Dewey,Newbold,Cox,Chamberlaine,Brow, Cooper, Bloodworth,Clarke
Durham/Yorks:Woodend, Watson,Parker, Dowser
Suffolk/Norfolk:Groom, Coleman, Kemp, Barnard, Alden,Blomfield,Smith,Howes,Knight,Kett,Fryston
Lincolnshire:Clements, Woodend

Offline PMILLS

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Re: Where else do I go?
« Reply #6 on: Friday 27 April 18 06:21 BST (UK) »
Let me start by saying how thankful I am for the help.I will give a bit more detail - I had the death cert which had the date of birth as 1/2/1904 and said ex serviceman.I applied to the MOD with no luck,this came back to me as from the APC-Disclosures,I tried everything I could think of and came up blank,I started to think he had never been in the Army at all,all I had to go on was stories.Then one of my uncles found a photo of my grandfather in uniform and a few months later my cousin found the birth cert.I reapplied under the date on the birth cert- 1/2/1905 (shaunJ your link is him) again with no luck. I have e-mailed a number of times with a lovely women from the APC and I must say they(she) has been great.
A friend of mine who's ex brit Army and now in the NZ Army looked at the photo and pointed out the blackcat on the shoulder, he also did some searching and came up with a Patrick Mills that seemed to fit but the APC said the dates didn't match.
I have been told that my Grandmother ( or whoever it was ) may have got the DOB for the death cert wrong through being upset at the time.
We had earthquakes here in 2011 and my Grandfathers grave was damaged,my uncles paid to have it fixed and I had to inform them that the dates on it,age and DOB were wrong which was a bit upsetting for two guys in their 80's.
I also find it interesting that my Grandfather would have been in his mid 30's at the start of the 2nd ww, would this have been normal ? 
Thanks for everything guys,anything is great and if I can supply anything that may help please let me know.
Pat 

Offline MaxD

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Re: Where else do I go?
« Reply #7 on: Friday 27 April 18 15:55 BST (UK) »
I also find it interesting that my Grandfather would have been in his mid 30's at the start of the 2nd ww, would this have been normal ? 

When war was declared on 3 Sep 1939, all men between 18 and 41 had to register for service.  There were exceptions for a number of trades and for the unfit.  So 33 was quite normal.  Apart from the black cat which was the emblem of the 1st London, later 56th London Division, are any other insignia identifiable on the uniform?  Can't say it will help given the efforts you have already made but you never know!

MaxD
I am Zoe Northeast, granddaughter of Maximilian Double.
 
It is with great difficulty I share with you that in the early hours of 07 August 2021, Maximilian passed away unexpectedly but peacefully.

With deep sadness,
Zoe



Double  Essex/Suffolk
Randle/Millington Warwicks
Sokser/Klingler Austria/Croatia

Offline PMILLS

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Re: Where else do I go?
« Reply #8 on: Friday 27 April 18 22:58 BST (UK) »
I will try to upload his photo