Birth year Robert MUSGRAVE Durham ? 1832 or 1839

[meeganf]

Hi Alan
Thanks for your input.

I haven't been able to trace the Musgraves in the 1841 census to any other than Sowerby, Thirsk rather than further north in Chilton or Hartburn. I know that is a long way from Chilton or Hartburn.  The rest of the family works ie Robert, Phoebe, Elizabeth and Mary.

No doubt you are correct about a 2nd baptism, who knows why it happened other than ro confuse their descendants!
Robert and Phoebe seemed to have moved quite a distance over the years. I have found them in Thirsk 1841, Togston 1851 and Chilton 1861 and then Tudhoe, Spennymoor in 1871. So they certainly moved around more than I would have thought, obviosly for his work as a miner.

Their son Robert bn 1832 was in Chilton in 1851 and 1861.

Many thanks
Meegan

[WolfieSmith]

I think the family in Thirsk in 1841 is the right one, all right names and ages, all "Not born in this County". Robert is a Platelayer working on the railway lines.
At the baptism of John Joshua Musgrave, Kelloe 1842, Robert is a Railway Contractor.

Alan.

[meeganf]

Yes, I wondered about the change in occupation when everything else seemed right, but such a distance to move, but needs must. He  stated as a platelayer and then a coal miner

On a similar line, do you know if the men retain their occupation throughout their lives on the census? Or was it as they were working? Would Robert still have been working as a miner at 71?  He was noted as a coal miner on his DC at age 75
Thanks again
Meegan

[WolfieSmith]

There was no pension system then, so men (and women) just worked for as long as they were able. When they couldn't work any longer there was Parish Relief, or the Workhouse, or relying on savings or relatives.

Alan.

[Jomot]

Hi Meegan

I'm pleased you got your answer, but intrigued that Robert appears to have been baptised twice.  I may just have a look next time I'm in the library anyway, just out of curiosity! 

I wonder how much his occupation of platelayer/railway contractor was influenced by being in Stockton (or vice versa) as Stockton's main claim to fame is being the site of the world's first public steam-powered railway, the Stockton & Darlington Railway.  Initially it was just to haul coal, but a passenger service began in 1833.   

Hartburn would seem an odd place to be living though, as it was a village outside of Stockton and as far as I know the railways arrived there much later.  I grew up about a mile away but have several friends who still live in the village, and the only railway we've ever known about was the 'cookoo line' (the Castle Eden Railway), which opened in the late 1870's.

Being in Thirsk in 1841 would make sense however, as Thirsk station opened in 1841 as part of the Great North of England Railway.

[meeganf]

That would be wonderful, Jomot, if you have time. Perhaps he traveled to work or to the churches? 2m seems no distance to us but possibly to them it was?

I have heard of your famous railway and seen shows on TV about it too. How large is Stockton?
Meegan

[Jomot]

Stockton isn't a large town but sits on the River Tees, which is the border between Durham & North Yorkshire, and once had quite a busy little port.

You're right that Hartburn isn't far from Stockton centre, but the two areas would have been very different at the time your family was there.  The map below is from the 1850s & shows very clearly how the population was centred around the river, with the High Street just behind.  St Thomas' Church is at the top end of the High Street, with Holy Trinity (Trinity Church) just left of the other end, on Yarm Lane.   If you follow the High Street down to Bridge Road you'll see where the railway line crosses, and this is St John's Crossing, where the first ticket office was.

Hartburn was then called East Hartburn and was far less populated and centred around agriculture.

https://maps.nls.uk/view/102341740#zoom=3&lat=2284&lon=12725&layers=BT

[meeganf]

Thank you for the map. It was only a small village, will be interesting if there is any sort of address in the church register but would doubt that

You have been very kind, many thanks
Meegan

[Jomot]

I popped into the library today so checked both baptisms while I was there:

St Thomas - 22 Jul 1832, Robert 2nd son of Robert & Phobe Musgrave, Hartburn, Labourer
Holy Trinity - 6 Jan 1839, Robert son of Robert & Phobe Musgrave, Hartburn, Plate-layer

If you PM me your email I'm happy to send you the copies.