Author Topic: Havelock of Guisborough  (Read 2123 times)

Offline Knight-Sunderland

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Havelock of Guisborough
« on: Saturday 28 April 18 23:19 BST (UK) »
Hello,

I recently found a link in my family tree to the HAVELOCK family of Guisborough. My first Havelock ancestor is Mary Havelock (1733-1802), whose brother William Havelock (1729-1777) was the grandfather of the famous British General Sir Henry Havelock (1795-1857).

Anyway, I was looking to trace the Havelock family tree back a bit further, but anything before Mary's father George Havelock (1688-1754) seems vague and uncertain. There are many trees online that have the Havelock line going back a few hundred years before George, but they are all unsourced and completely unreliable.

For example, all of the trees I have seen list George's mother as Wootons Patton, a strange name and one I instantly thought must be incorrect. I decided to look at the marriage record from Guisborough 1681 between George's father Thomas Havelock and 'Wootons Patton', and found that I was right, the bride's name is definitely not 'Wootons' In fact looking at the record it seems clear to me the name is 'Betteris' (Beatrice). I then found a burial record for a 'Beatrice Havelock, widow' in Guisborough 1735, adding to the evidence.

Going back further before Thomas Havelock the names of the parents seem to be completely unsourced and the years of birth, marriage and death appear to be guessed, pure fiction some of them!

Does anyone else connect to the Havelock family? Anyone have any idea where these completely unsourced Havelock genealogies get their info from?

Regards

Jack

Offline rosie99

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Re: Havelock of Guisborough
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 29 April 18 07:52 BST (UK) »
Does anyone else connect to the Havelock family? Anyone have any idea where these completely unsourced Havelock genealogies get their info from?

Regards

Jack

I would imagine like so many trees online one person has put on the information and the rest have just copied it without checking.  Some people tend to think that because several trees have the same information it must be right  ::)
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Offline havers

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Re: Havelock of Guisborough
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 23 January 19 19:09 GMT (UK) »
Hi There
I have traced the Havelock family back to the mid 1500's with the help of another Havelock who is a member of the One Name Guild and I can therefore tell you that Thomas did indeed marry Wootons Patton.

I am descended from William's older brother George born 1726 who married Sarah Walker. I believe that Mary who was born in 1733 married Robert Walker on 6th June 1756, but other than that I do not have any other information on her, so if you do please tell me.

All the best

Mike



Online Spelk

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Re: Havelock of Guisborough
« Reply #3 on: Friday 25 January 19 15:35 GMT (UK) »
Best not to rely on second hand information or transcripts if you can get at a source document.

The index to Probate held at the Borthwick shows these which might be of interest:
Christopher HAVELOCK 1728 Guisbrough, Will
Bryan HAVELOCK 1754 Guisbrough, Will
Daniel HAVELOCK 1728 Marske, Admon
Eliz HAVELOCK 1736 Hinderwell, Admon (widow of Runswick)
George HAVELOCK 1739 Guisbrough, Will
George HAVELOCK 1754 Guisbrough, Will

I believe if you go to the Borthwick you can copy the documents to a USB stick for free. Otherwise you can order from the Borthwick Institute; though this costs.

You might also find some useful documents at The National Archives from where you may be able to download them - last time I did that I think it cost £3.50.


Offline Knight-Sunderland

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Re: Havelock of Guisborough
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 10 February 19 14:00 GMT (UK) »
This is from the original 1681 marriage record.

To me, this says 'Betteris' and not 'Wootons'.

Offline Whipby

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Re: Havelock of Guisborough
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 24 March 19 09:45 GMT (UK) »
For what it's worth, I also think the name looks like Betteris, although I can see how it could be mistranscribed.  But there aren't two vowels in the middle, so even if the e was misread as an o, it still wouldn't spell Wootons.  It could spell Wotteris, or maybe Wottens, if you ignore the dot over the i, but like you, I think the initial letter is a B, and the last three letters are ris.

I always wonder why names and words vary so much in spelling (I know there was no standard at this time), and in this case I'd suspect it's been 'misspelt' (to our way of thinking) because her name wasn't pronounced the way we pronounce it today.  This could be because of local dialect, or even the idiosyncracies of her own family's way of referring to each other, with 'pet' names, and so on.  And they may never have seen the name written down.  So instead of Bee-a-triss, as we would say today (and even that's subject to dialect, because some people pronounce it Bay-a-triss, depending on where they come from) maybe it was pronounced Bett-riss.  An extra e in the middle wouldn't necessarily change the pronunciation - Bette-riss.  Rather than the Better-iss that we could read it as.

Just my thoughts, and ramblings, and might be completely wrong, but this sort of stuff fascinates me!
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Reddie, Gott, Woodcock, Randerson, Heslop, Dove, Sowerby, Henderson, Singleton, Butler, Kelly, Parkes, Pinkney, Sellers, Speck, Todd,  Wilkie and others.

Offline trish1120

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Re: Havelock of Guisborough
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 24 March 19 13:15 GMT (UK) »
FreeREG also has her as Betteris Patton.
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Cummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND)

Offline Catbadger

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Re: Havelock of Guisborough
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 29 January 20 08:14 GMT (UK) »
Hello I am late coming to this discussion so not sure if anyone will read this!  I am also directly related to George Havelock (1688) and I am in agreement that the name is most probably Betteris, it does make sense especially as there is a burial of a Betteris recorded.  I would love to hear from anyone else related to the family as I am also stuck at Thomas.