Author Topic: Lost ANZAC I am trying to ID from clues  (Read 1646 times)

Offline Dundee

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Re: Lost ANZAC I am trying to ID from clues
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 01 May 18 03:00 BST (UK) »
Should he have had a horseshoe on his sleeve if he was a farrier?

Debra  :)

Offline majm

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Re: Lost ANZAC I am trying to ID from clues
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 01 May 18 03:06 BST (UK) »
I have added to my post.  Vertical patches seem to be for 5th division.

JM
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Offline Sturdy

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Re: Lost ANZAC I am trying to ID from clues
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 01 May 18 04:39 BST (UK) »
Thank you

Looking at John Thomas FRANCIS service records it looks like he was in the 4th Div for most of his service. It also worries me that he was awarded the MM in 1916/ 1917 but not wearing the ribbon bar in the picture. I will have a closer look when I finish work at the various movements for J T FRANCIS but haven't ruled him out yet..

Debra - once I am happy with a couple of possible soldiers I will see if I can find an existing photos for those soldier or locate possible descendants. Long shot but I am not giving up yet.   

Thanks again

Sturdy   
STOREY Family London (Spitialfields, Shoreditch, Lambeth, Wandsworth) & Ballarat Aust 

PARK family Glasgow

MILLS (MILES) Family Kirkmaiden - Wigtownshire, Glasgow & Geelong Vic and Moulamein NSW, Aust

MILLER family London (Bethnal Green, Mile End Old Town) & Auckland, NZ

AVON family Cobh, Queenstown, Cashel (HUSSEY Family), Ireland & Melbourne Australia -

Offline q98

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Re: Lost ANZAC I am trying to ID from clues
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 01 May 18 05:46 BST (UK) »
This could be your man:

https://www.aif.adfa.edu.au/showPerson?pid=103095

https://s3-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/awm-media/collection/RCDIG1067852/large/5376893.JPG

https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/DetailsReports/ItemDetail.aspx?Barcode=31122841&isAv=N

http://www2.mcb.wa.gov.au/NameSearch/details.php?id=KB00114678

EDIT following further research:
HONOURS AND AWARDS
John Thomas Francis
Service number   916
Rank   Corporal
Unit: 1st Australian Army Service Corps Company
Service: Australian Imperial Force
Conflict/Operation: First World War, 1914-1918
Award: Military Medal
Commonwealth of Australia Gazette 25 July 1917 on page 1543 at position 112
London Gazette   19 February 1917 on page 1756 at position 12

He was recorded as 22 years of age (dovetails nicely with 4th hyperlink) at enlistment on 10 Sep 1914 and born at Wellington, South Australia.

FURTHER EDIT:
Given Names: John Thomas
Last Name: FRANCIS
Birth Year: 1891
Father: John FRANCIS
Mother: Maria MORONY
District: Frome

If this is your man, I live not too distant from the Cemetery and would be pleased to forward an image or two of his final resting place.

q98
Fremantle
q98
32.04'.04"S 115.48'.30"E
Hamilton, Kennedy, Lovell, McCreadie, Murray, Workman - Ayrshire, Scotland
Lovell - Texas, USA
McCreadie - Dunedin, NZ
Boyle - Eire
McCreadie, Wills, Wyatt - Queensland
Tait/Tate - Toronto, Canada
Workman, McEwan - OFS, South Africa


Online Ruskie

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Re: Lost ANZAC I am trying to ID from clues
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 01 May 18 07:00 BST (UK) »
Just jumping in here  :) ....

To check if David and q98's man is the right one, might it be worth looking for descendants in case any of them have photos or can ID him?

Offline Sturdy

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Re: Lost ANZAC I am trying to ID from clues
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 01 May 18 13:41 BST (UK) »
Just back from work and catching up. Thank you for the offer q98 however I think at this state I might try to utilise the findmypast site Majm recommended as it looks like it will be of great assistance in filtering a number of the various combination of names in or out. I will try to tackle that over the week and let you know if I make any progress

Many thanks

Sturdy
STOREY Family London (Spitialfields, Shoreditch, Lambeth, Wandsworth) & Ballarat Aust 

PARK family Glasgow

MILLS (MILES) Family Kirkmaiden - Wigtownshire, Glasgow & Geelong Vic and Moulamein NSW, Aust

MILLER family London (Bethnal Green, Mile End Old Town) & Auckland, NZ

AVON family Cobh, Queenstown, Cashel (HUSSEY Family), Ireland & Melbourne Australia -

Offline q98

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Re: Lost ANZAC I am trying to ID from clues
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 01 May 18 14:30 BST (UK) »
Two observations if I may.
1. The letters  RASC  are visible on his right epaulette
2. The gap between the top and centre stripes of Sergeant rank is not uniform as it should be IF the rank badge was a genuine one-piece item. It appears to be a Lance Corporal's single stripe added above a Corporal's two stripes. Further, this top stripe appears slightly narrower and a different "pattern weave". Please see below regarding temporary promotion.

EDIT: Further research reveals his Service Record here https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ViewImage.aspx?B=4033259

It reflects service at Gallipoli and a possible wounding there. He was promoted to Temporary Farrier Staff Sergeant with effect 14 Sep 1918 and 19 days later reverted to Farrier Corporal. The temporary promotion was to cover the absence of the substantive individual. An official notification of the awarded Military Medal was sent to his brother "Mr P J FRANCIS" whose name appears to have been deleted and replaced with  "Mrs Mary Daly, Broomhill, WA". This notification commences with "Dear Sir" corrected to "Dear Madam" and refers to "your brother" which has not been corrected. It is possible Mrs Daly was John's married sister.
q98
32.04'.04"S 115.48'.30"E
Hamilton, Kennedy, Lovell, McCreadie, Murray, Workman - Ayrshire, Scotland
Lovell - Texas, USA
McCreadie - Dunedin, NZ
Boyle - Eire
McCreadie, Wills, Wyatt - Queensland
Tait/Tate - Toronto, Canada
Workman, McEwan - OFS, South Africa

Offline jim1

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Re: Lost ANZAC I am trying to ID from clues
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday 02 May 18 14:41 BST (UK) »
Just to add a bit of useless info. This was probably taken when on leave to Australia while still a Sgt. prior to reverting back to Cpl.
The ASC received the Royal prefix in 1918.
Oct. 1918 I would suggest as a date.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
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Offline q98

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Re: Lost ANZAC I am trying to ID from clues
« Reply #17 on: Wednesday 02 May 18 17:10 BST (UK) »
Oct. 1918 I would suggest as a date.

I would suggest a slightly wider date range, that of the 19 days Temporary rank; 14 Sep 1918 - 03 Oct 1918 when he reverted to his substantive rank. Nine days later, Farrier Corporal FRANCIS embarked for Australia at "Havre" (Le Havre?).
q98
32.04'.04"S 115.48'.30"E
Hamilton, Kennedy, Lovell, McCreadie, Murray, Workman - Ayrshire, Scotland
Lovell - Texas, USA
McCreadie - Dunedin, NZ
Boyle - Eire
McCreadie, Wills, Wyatt - Queensland
Tait/Tate - Toronto, Canada
Workman, McEwan - OFS, South Africa