Author Topic: Ellen Riley, of Preston, Lancashire, 1856 and 1861  (Read 1883 times)

Offline oldohiohome

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Re: Ellen Riley, of Preston, Lancashire, 1856 and 1861
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 03 May 18 06:22 BST (UK) »

www.lancashirebmd.org.uk shows it was James Collins

Thank you, I didn't know about that site. And yes, I was confused in Reply #4. I caught the mistake a few hours later, but I already had shut things down for the night, or so I thought.

Since I didn't find an Ellen Collins marrying a Mr Riley in England after 1848, that Ellen Lilly - James Collins couple are probably someone else. In fact there is a James Collins (30) and Ellen (35) at 32 Canal St, Preston, in 1851, that might be them.

At any rate, I came to the same conclusion you did, that I am looking for an Ellen Lilly - Mr. Riley marriage in Ireland. And possibly an earlier marriage of Ellen (unknown maiden name) to a Mr Lilly. So back to the Irish records I go, but at least with another surname to help narrow things down.

----
I don't know if Ellen Riley and Jane Carrigan are related. Ellen could have been a neighbor or landlady. That is what I why I am trying to find Ellen's maiden name. The more information I have when I start going through the Irish parish registers, the better off I will be.

---
As for James and Elizabeth Carrigan who were living on Mt Pleasant St in Preston in 1861:
James is the son of Jane Gleason and James Carrigan. This I am sure of, from the American records. So a Jane Carrigan, widow of James, dying on Mt Pleasant St five years earlier, would be a likely candidate for being his mother.

-- Ed H

Offline lancsann

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Re: Ellen Riley, of Preston, Lancashire, 1856 and 1861
« Reply #10 on: Thursday 03 May 18 08:54 BST (UK) »
1871 census has Michael and Catherine living in Glasgow with mother in law Ellen LILLY

I wonder if that is a mistranscription in 1861. It is poorly written. Or an enumerator mistake translating an Irish accent

Edit - ignore that last bit if an Ellen Riley was the death informant it is likely to be correct name.

Offline lancsann

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Re: Ellen Riley, of Preston, Lancashire, 1856 and 1861
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 03 May 18 09:04 BST (UK) »
1851 also shows an Ellen and Catherine Lilley living as boarders in a house in Preston. I can’t read the address. Ellen’s age seems to vary but Catherine is consistent. Age 13 in 1851.

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Ellen Riley, of Preston, Lancashire, 1856 and 1861
« Reply #12 on: Thursday 03 May 18 11:45 BST (UK) »
1851 also shows an Ellen and Catherine Lilley living as boarders in a house in Preston. I can’t read the address. Ellen’s age seems to vary but Catherine is consistent. Age 13 in 1851.
If head of household was James Muldoon, address was Back Friday Street. Ellen's age was 40 something, 45?
Cowban


Offline oldohiohome

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Re: Ellen Riley, of Preston, Lancashire, 1856 and 1861
« Reply #13 on: Thursday 03 May 18 12:16 BST (UK) »
1871 census has Michael and Catherine living in Glasgow with mother in law Ellen LILLY

I wonder if that is a mistranscription in 1861. It is poorly written. Or an enumerator mistake translating an Irish accent

Edit - ignore that last bit if an Ellen Riley was the death informant it is likely to be correct name.

Right. I thought about the mistranscription angle also when I saw only the census, but Ellen keeps turning up as Lilly in other records.
 The death record says:
the mark of Ellen Riley, present at the death, Mount Pleasant, Preston

Offline oldohiohome

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Re: Ellen Riley, of Preston, Lancashire, 1856 and 1861
« Reply #14 on: Thursday 03 May 18 14:05 BST (UK) »
1851 also shows an Ellen and Catherine Lilley living as boarders in a house in Preston. I can’t read the address. Ellen’s age seems to vary but Catherine is consistent. Age 13 in 1851.

So in 1851 Ellen Lilley is 45 and married. In 1856 she is known as Ellen Riley on Jane Carrigan's death record, and in 1861 she is Ellen Riley, widowed, age 38. Maybe if Ellen's husband Mr Lilly died between 1851 and 1856, she went back to her maiden name on the records. Or it is a complete mystery.

Either way, her marriage(s) most likely took place in Ireland. I'm going to try ancestry.com at the library, I think they have indexed the Irish Catholic parish registers. If not, I will look around for a site that has.

Offline lancsann

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Re: Ellen Riley, of Preston, Lancashire, 1856 and 1861
« Reply #15 on: Thursday 03 May 18 18:08 BST (UK) »
1851 also shows an Ellen and Catherine Lilley living as boarders in a house in Preston. I can’t read the address. Ellen’s age seems to vary but Catherine is consistent. Age 13 in 1851.

So in 1851 Ellen Lilley is 45 and married. In 1856 she is known as Ellen Riley on Jane Carrigan's death record, and in 1861 she is Ellen Riley, widowed, age 38. Maybe if Ellen's husband Mr Lilly died between 1851 and 1856, she went back to her maiden name on the records. Or it is a complete mystery.

Either way, her marriage(s) most likely took place in Ireland. I'm going to try ancestry.com at the library, I think they have indexed the Irish Catholic parish registers. If not, I will look around for a site that has.

But she is Lilly in 1871 in Glasgow

Offline oldohiohome

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Re: Ellen Riley, of Preston, Lancashire, 1856 and 1861
« Reply #16 on: Thursday 03 May 18 18:27 BST (UK) »
I know. Either that destroys my theory or she started using Lilly again, since she was living with her daughter.

Then again we don't know who the informant was on the 1871 Census in Glasgow either. In 1856 and 1861, Ellen was probably speaking for herself, as head of the house. In 1871 it could have been her daughter or son-in-law, both more likely to refer to her as Lilly.

What worries me more is finding her in 1851 in Preston without Jane Carrigan in the household, and not on Mt Pleasant St either. It is looking more like Ellen and Jane are not related. I was hoping to have another relative to help identify the whole family when I get to the parish registers.

It also bothers me that the Carrigans aren't in Preston in 1851. The family said they spent some time in Wales after leaving Ireland and before they went to Preston. But I haven't found them there either.

Jane's daughter-in-law Elizabeth and the three children arrived in the US in 1864, and the whole family is in Boston in 1865, so they must not have been in Preston for long. James and Elizabeth were married there in 1858.

Are there city directories for Preston for that time period? I haven't Googled it, so I am kind of asking someone else to do the work for me, but I've wondered if there were.

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Ellen Riley, of Preston, Lancashire, 1856 and 1861
« Reply #17 on: Thursday 03 May 18 23:20 BST (UK) »
General & Commercial Directories of Preston. Produced by Preston Historical Society. Lancashire Family History & Heraldry Society have it in stock. Earliest year in the collection 1869. I don't know if there were earlier editions.
Baines, Pigot's and Slater's are names of directories of Lancashire in 19th century, e.g. Slater's Commercial directory of Lancashire 1851. Coverage varies. Some only list notable people, business owners and those who held property.
For a longer list see RootsChats Links - Lancashire directories.
Take a look at Manchester & Lancashire Family History Society.

Cowban