Author Topic: Fate of Everest Anseline after time on 'The Vernon'  (Read 12167 times)

Offline Gold prospector

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Re: Fate of Everest Anseline after time on 'The Vernon'
« Reply #54 on: Thursday 10 May 18 14:22 BST (UK) »
Dear Wivenhoe,

Below is the Marriage Certificate details for Charles Gray McRae, taken from an image of the handwritten document that I requested 20 years ago and issued in Sydney, 10th February, 1997 by Barbara Flett, Registrar.

Column by column, it reads as follows:

No: 219.
Date and Place of Marriage: 30th November, 1893; Broken Hill.
Names and Surnames of Parties: Charles Gray McRae; Mary Anseline.
Conjugal Status: Bachelor; Widow.
Birthplace: America; Sydney.
Usual occupation: Miner; Housekeeper.
Age; 56: 45.
Usual Place of Residence: Broken Hill; Broken Hill.
Father's name, mother's name and maiden name:
Alexander McRae, Agnes Hardy; Richard Morris, Mary (surname unknown).
Father's occupation: Customs Officer; Baker.

Underneath is written:

Married in the District Registrar's Office, Broken Hill.
According to:  Acts of Council, No. 19, Victoria No.30
                                            No. 55 Victoria No. 34

And to the right of the page:

This Marriage was solemnised between us: Chas. Gray McRae; Mary Anseline.
In the Presence of: E. T. Slee; C.P.Slee.
Before me: (unreadable) Gibson, Officiating Registrar.

Once again, thank you for your comments,

Gold prospector.
                       

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Re: Fate of Everest Anseline after time on 'The Vernon'
« Reply #55 on: Friday 11 May 18 02:13 BST (UK) »
Dear majm,

I thought this might be a reasonable point to bring Jules Francois Anseline into the 'mix'.
The following is a brief summary of my research to date and comments would be appreciated:

One of the most informative documents I have on him is the image of the handwritten Birth Certificate of his youngest child. The contents are as follows:

Date and place of birth of child- 10 March, 1874; Welcome Lead near Parkes.
Name- Frederick Jules.
Father's name, occupation, age and birthplace- Jules Anseline; Miner; 30 years; Mauritius.
Date and place of marriage, previous issue- 16 March 1865; Young, NSW; 2 males living; 2 females, living; 1 male, deceased; 1 female, deceased.
Mother's name and maiden surname, age and birthplace- Mary Morriss; 26 years; Sydney, NSW.
Informant- Certified by Mary Anseline; Mother; Parkes.
Witness- Mrs Harmer.
Particulars of registration- Stephen Freeman, 28 May 1874, Forbes; After declaration duly made according to law.

I note that Mary gave as their marriage date, 1865 (above), though there is a Marriage Certificate dated 21st July, 1871, handwritten, at French Man's Reef near Carcoar for Jules Anseline and Mary Morris (Conjugal status - 'Bachelor and Spinster'), in the Rites of the Roman Catholic Church. On the certificate, it also states that his occupation was gold digger and usual place of residence was Frenchman's Reef; the marriage was solemnised between Jules and Mary though on the signature line there is an 'x' her mark.

Death Certificate (handwritten) for 'Jules Anseline'. infant, died May 4, 1866 at Black Range, (Albury); buried at Albury; undertaker, Victore Audrieux; Witness, Augustin Sanson; age 24 months; died of convulsions of 13 hours duration; Father: Jules Francois Anseline, mother Mary Morris.

In 'The Freeman's Journal' May 18, 1872:  Subscriptions  taken at the laying of the Foundation stone of the new Convent at Carcoar on 21st April 1872; Jules Anseline (with many others) gave a 5 shilling donation (last name on list)

I have a 'family heirloom' which is the actual Miners Rights certificate issued to Jules Anseline by the NSW Government in the 'Western District' on January 1, 1873.

In the NSW Government Gazette September 14, 1875, "Inland Letters", there is an entry for "65. Anseline Monsieur Jules, St Vincent's Hospital" (Trove) (?A letter returned to the dead letter office).

Death Certificate (hand written) for 'Juleius Anslm': died 1 April 1876, Sydney Infirmary, age 37 years; Cause of death, paraplegia, 4 days in hospital; Dr Gillman saw him last 31 March. Buried at the Catholic Necropolis; Where  born and how long: Mauritius, 20 years.

He is in Mortuary 1, Section 7, grave number 89; no headstone (I visited there once).

Finally, (from Ancestry.com) in "Slave Registers of former British Colony Dependencies", 1813-1834, there was a slave owner by the name of Anseline who had 3 slaves registered in 1830.
So, maybe Jules' family had sugar cane plantations in Mauritius, but when slavery was dismantled and the Mauritian economy was severely affected, a young Jules Francois headed off to Australia in the 1850's (after all, there was a gold rush on at the time!)

What do you think?

Paul
PS: I visited Mauritius 10 years ago; there were 27 'Anselines' in the Telephone Directory of Port Louis! Although I had a bit of language help at BDM in Port Louis, I got nowhere (the excuse/reason  was that much of those early documents have been destroyed by cyclones over the years ??? - and I wasn't convinced they were all that keen to take the trouble to look for me) ???

Offline wivenhoe

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Re: Fate of Everest Anseline after time on 'The Vernon'
« Reply #56 on: Friday 11 May 18 07:49 BST (UK) »
This is possibly a connection to your Jules ANSELINE -

BDM VIC marriage
1856 / 085 ANSELINE Louis Cambrone   marr.  TINNION Catherine

Catherine ANSELINE died 14 Oct 1903 Greymouth NZ. Beneficiary of her estate is husband Louis, so you might suspect there were no children.

Louis Cambronne ANSELINE died 2 May 1904 Lawson, NSW. Will file to see by Familysearch -
..my brothers Montrose and Mombell both of Mauritius
..my two illegitimate  children by Emma D'MAY also of Mauritius
..my niece Florence DIND of Sydney
..my nephew Edward ANCHOR, painter, Sydney

BDM NSW death
5718/1904  ANSELINE  Louis C   75 YRS LAWSON           Katoomba

SMH 4 May 1904 p8
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/14617677?
..death notice for Louis ANSELINE, late Greymouth, NZ....

BDM NZ births
1868/22598 ANCHER  Florence Josephine  parents Florence / Edward Andrew
1870/24886 ANCHER Edward Albert          parents Florence / Edward Andrew
1872/26024 ANCHER  Frederick William     parents Florence / Edward Andrew

BDM NSW marriage
560/1888 ANCHER Florence J marr. DIND Arthur T  @ Sydney

Labour Daily 14 Jul 1936 p4
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/237745435?
...obit Edward Albert ANCHER....came from NZ with parents..........

Offline Gold prospector

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Re: Fate of Everest Anseline after time on 'The Vernon'
« Reply #57 on: Friday 11 May 18 08:53 BST (UK) »
Dear Wivenhoe,

Thanks for that.

Yes, I've been aware of Cambronne Anseline and his wife, Catherine Tinnion, for some time but can't make out what the connection with Jules Francois could be.

I guess I've just concluded that since there are so many 'Anselines' in Mauritius (see above story), he may have come to Australia independently at another time (though, admittedly, perhaps  somehow related back in Mauritius to a much earlier Anseline ancestor).

I was hopeful my visit to BDM in Port Louis might cast some light but that visit was unsuccessful for the reasons I gave (above)....??frequent cyclones that damaged records, ?slightly reluctant BDM staff.

Nevertheless, might Mauritian Family History documents be available from some other source (other than Ancestry.com which I've tried)? I should add that I visited my local LDS Library once and, on a punt, got them to bring in Mauritian BDM records from around 1838-1844 (my estimate as to possible birth dates for Jules), but the 19th century French writing and condition of the Microfiche was too challenging - but maybe could be worth another try.

What is your opinion?

Gold prospector.

PS: I've have had no help with Immigration Records either (I guess the challenge is to identify which port he came to and hope that he didn't come in steerage!)

PPS: I met some of the Anselines in Port Louis when I was there and they have a Creole appearance which makes me wonder if the slaves who may have be been 'owned' by the Anseline family there took the "Master's" name, since the British Government required them to have a name for recording purposes.

PPS: Years ago, I did the National Geographic DNA ancestry test (ie: not the current test which just looks at the autosomes) and my deep genetic ancestry (on the paternal side) is unequivocally of southern French origin from thousands of years ago.

Gold prospector.


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Re: Fate of Everest Anseline after time on 'The Vernon'
« Reply #58 on: Sunday 13 May 18 13:30 BST (UK) »
Dear Wivenhoe,

I've revisited the possibility of Louis Cambrone Anseline being connected with Jules Francois, based on your most recent post.

As you probably already know, Louis Cambrone's Marriage Certificate shows him married to Catherine Tinnion on 9th Feb, 1856 in the Minister's House, Carisbrook (which Google tells me is in Victoria). He was 28 years and she, 18 years. I have the hand-written certificate.

They both say they were living in Daisy Hill.

He gives his birthplace as Mauritius and she, Harrington, Cumberland.

His occupation ...Digger

He gives his father as Francois Anseline (Farmer) and  mother, Eliz Murrett. Catherine gives her parents as John Tinnion (Mariner) and Eliza Johnson.

I have Louis' hand-written Death Certificate and it reads as follows:
Date and Place of Death: 1904, May 2nd; Lawson, NSW.
Name and occupation: Louis Cambron Anseline; Boarding House Keeper.
Sex and Age: Male; 75 years.
Cause of Death, Duration of last illness; Medical attendant, when he last saw deceased: Dilatation of the heart; Fatty degeneration; few hours; W. F. Quaife, MB, Registered; May 2, 1904.
Name and occupation of father, Name and maiden surname of mother: Unknown; unknown; unknown.
Informant: A. T. Dind; Nephew; Cowles Road, Mosman, Sydney, NSW.
Particulars of Registration: (unreadable) Nash; May 3rd; Katoomba, NSW.
When and where buried; Name of Undertaker: May 4, 1904; Roman Catholic Cemetery, Gore Hill, NSW; John Chandler.
Name and Religion of Minister and names of witnesses of burial: John Roney; Roman Catholic; A. T. Dind, William Arnott.
Where born and how long in the Australasian colonies or states: Paris, France; Victoria, 5 years; New Zealand, 40 years; NSW, 10 days.
Place of marriage, age and to whom: Melbourne, Victoria; 30 years; unknown.
Children of Marriage: No issue.

I have investigated 'A. T. Dind', nephew.
I reasoned that, if, indeed a nephew, the most straightforward relationship would be as an offspring of a sister of Louis Cambrone or sister of Catherine Tinnion.
However, the parents of A. T. Dind (whom I believe to be Arthur Tait Dind), born 1865, were William F. Dind and Jane Fowler. Jane died in 1896.
Now, Arthur Tait Dind married Florence J. Ancher in 1888, as per your post, and her parents were Edward A. Ancher and Ethel P. However, I can't determine whether Ethel P. was an 'Anseline' or a 'Tinnion'. However, as per your post, there is a reference to '...my niece, Florence Dind...' so perhaps Ethel P will prove to be a 'Tinnion' or 'Anseline' and Arthur was related to Louis by marriage?

Do you think that line of enquiry is worth pursuing any further?

As you indicated, the other line of enquiry is via Montrose , Mombell and Emma M'Day from Mauritius through Familysearch. Is that correct?

Many thanks for your assistance with this!

Gold prospector.


Offline wivenhoe

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Re: Fate of Everest Anseline after time on 'The Vernon'
« Reply #59 on: Monday 14 May 18 10:21 BST (UK) »
At reply #56 I have identified three births in New Zealand to Edward Andrew ANCHER and Florence

NZ BDM deaths
1875/5841 ANCHER  Frederick John  12M
1872/9725 ANCHER  Frederick William  6W

The death, 1872, would be the birth, 1872.  The death 1875 is likely a second Frederick, with birth (NZ?) not recorded, or transcription error making it difficult to locate. That leaves Edward Albert ANCHER (b. 1870) and sister Florence ANCHER (b. 1868).

NSW BDM marriage
560/1888 ANCHER Florence J  marr.  DIND Arthur T   @ Sydney
6556/1897 AUCHER Edward A   marr. PARSONS Ethyl P @ Wollongong

NSM BDM death
1925 / 10451 DIND  Florence J   parents EDWARD (56 YRS COAST HOS    @ Redfern
1936 / 13280 ANCHER  Edward Albert parents Albert Andrew / Florence Josephine  @ Chatswood

Florence is the sister of Edward Albert ANCHER who married Ethel P.

The Enquirer and Commercial News 28 Sep 1887
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/66082205?
...story naming Edward ANCHER....Mr Ancher has left for England........

Sydney Mail and New South Wales Advertiser  11 Aug 1888 p313
......ANCHER - DIND marriage notice....Florence Josephine daughter of the late Edward ANCHER......

BDM NZ death
1878/1023 ARCHER  Florence  35Y     Kumara Times has her as ANCHER.

Ancestry family tree has her as Mary Florence TINNION..........(sister to Catherine ANSELINE?)

Offline majm

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Re: Fate of Everest Anseline after time on 'The Vernon'
« Reply #60 on: Tuesday 15 May 18 01:02 BST (UK) »
Jules ANSELINE is being difficult to locate in my offline NSW resources.   ::)

But Wivenhoe has been mentioning DIND ....  I hope these are helpful and not side-tracking....

SOME DIND SIGHTINGS IN NORTHERN SYDNEY SUBURBS

NSW Electoral Roll 1902 NORTH SYDNEY, polling at Mosman’s Bay
Agnes DIND C/o Hank’s, Military Road,  domestic duties.
NO OTHERS by DIND surname at that polling place.

NSW Electoral Roll 1902 NORTH SYDNEY, polling at Milson’s Point (ie includes Fitzroy St)
NONE with surname DIND.  It was NOT compulsory to enrol. 

NSW ER 1878 ST LEONARDS
William DIND, Milsons Point, Freehold
William Forster DIND, Milsons Point, householder

NSW ER 1870 ST LEONARDS
William DIND, Milsons Point, Freehold
William Forster DIND, Milsons Point, householder

Sands 1900 Suburban Directory
Alfred St, North Sydney
North side of Alfred St
81 Alfred St, J Pegnan, grocer
Then a cross st, ie Fitzroy St
Then
87 Alfred St, Dind’s hotel – Kate Connell


Sands 1890 Sydney Alphabetical directory
DIND
Arthur, Willoughby St, St Leonards East
William, Sen., Fitzroy St, St Leonards East
William D., Dind’s Hotel, Alfred St, St Leonards East

Sands 1877 Alpha
DIND,  W.T.  Dind’s hotel, Lane Cove, St Leonards East
DIND, William, Fitzroy St, St Leonards East

Sands 1892 Suburban Directory
Alfred St, North Sydney,
North side of Alfred St:
58 Alfred : Charles H STEWART, grocer
Then there’s a cross street : Fitzroy St
Then there’s Dind’s Hotel, William D DIND
Then:
64 Alfred St, T.P. FOSTER, poulterer and provision merchant

I see that as early as 1866, that Dind’s Hotel was available as a venue for for clergy to marry couples. 
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/60601399  Empire 23 Oct1866

W.D. and Mary Ann DIND’s baby daughter succumbed in  July 1895 aged just 1 year and ten months.
 https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/13982668   SMH 29 July 1895 

Wiliam Don DIND aged 34 yrs, died same year, eldest son of WF DIND
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/14021739   SMH 21 Oct1895

Jack (William Wilton) DIND son of the lawte William Don and Mary Ann DIND died 9 Aug 1913
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/15442394  SMH 11 Aug 1913

From the Aldine Centennial History of NSW 1888
William DIND, JP, abt 75 years old, native of London, arrived Hobart 1834 to Sydney 1838, and became connected with the Victoria and Prince of Wales Theatres, for 30 years.  Then settled on Sydney’s North Shore, opened Lily of St Leonards Hotel.  9 Years an Alderman, 5 as Mayor of St  Leonards. 

ADD
http://www.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/learn/search-our-collections/sands-directory
JM
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Offline majm

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Re: Fate of Everest Anseline after time on 'The Vernon'
« Reply #61 on: Tuesday 15 May 18 01:10 BST (UK) »
Retyped after keyboard issues sorted  ::)

NSW ER 1902 NORTH SYDNEY, polling at The Spit 
DIND:
Arthur T, Cowles Rd, clerk
Emily Rosetta, Belmont Road, Domestic Duties,
Florence Josephine, Cowles Rd, Domestic duties 
Leslie Arthur, Belmont Road, Labourer 
Nea (a female), Belmont Road, domestic duties
William F, Belmont Road, Independent Means.

JM
   
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Re: Fate of Everest Anseline after time on 'The Vernon'
« Reply #62 on: Wednesday 16 May 18 14:17 BST (UK) »
Dear majm,

Thank you for the information about the Dinds.

As you know, Arthur T. Dind was the Informant on Louis Cambrone Anseline's handwritten Death Certificate (which I have - see above) and he indicated that he was a nephew of the deceased. So, the hope was that, through him, we might find out more about Louis' siblings (conjecture: was Jules Francois Anseline one of them?). (Incidentally, Arthur's father was the William F. Dind you identified).

However, as you can see from my deductions in my last post, I could not confirm that a sister of Louis or a sister of his wife, Catherine Tinnion, were Arthur. T. Dind's mothers (Ancestry.com). His mother was Jane Fowler.

Now, Arthur. T. Dind was married to Florence J. Ancher. So, I looked at her mother's potential maiden names (Ancestry.com) to see if she had been an 'Anseline' or 'Tinnion' but could only come up with 'Ethel P'  :(

Hypothesis: If Ethel P. proves to be an 'Anseline', then maybe that finding might, maybe, lead us indirectly back to Jules. However, if she is a 'Tinnion', then I can't see how this line of enquiry will provide any additional clues to Jules.

Returning to Arthur, when his father's wife, Jane Fowler, died (in 1896), I considered the possibility of his father remarrying (to an 'Anseline' or 'Tinnion' lady)...so that Arthur could then be a step-nephew. However, that's probably a very long shot...they would have been an old couple!

I would be grateful for your comments and if you have any other way we might identify Ethel P.

Gold prospector

PS: An interesting little aside is that, of Arthur's 5 children, one was named 'Arthur Cambronne'.

PPS: Should I be starting these 'Jules Anseline' posts with bold type, as you have been doing?