Fate of Everest Anseline after time on 'The Vernon'

[Gold prospector]

After Julia Anseline (Everest's sister) married Thomas Nestor on November 10, 1883, in Sydney, her subsequent life journey is a mystery until she eventually turned up in Broken Hill (reunited with her mother, Mary Anseline/McRae) where, in 1897, she was in and out of gaol on prostitution charges.

However, as well as trying to work out what she did, I'd like to be sure about which Thomas Nestor she actually married:

!) the one who died of 'phthisis' (TB) in Sydney Hospital in 1888 (born about 1864), or
2) the petty criminal (also born about 1864) who changed his name to Thomas Hynes in the late 1880's and continued in and out of gaol up to, at least 1893.

Can anyone help?
Gold prospector

[majm]

You should expect NSW bdm death cert (or official transcription) to name the spouse of the deceased and so learn which of those chaps were married to her.

JM

[Gold prospector]

Hi majm,

Thanks for that...

I've seen the Death Certificate on the Thomas Nestor who died in 1885 (the reason I can see he died of TB), but unfortunately the name of mother and father are 'not stated' and the column for 'marriage, age and to whom' is completely blank (!)

However, I'll see if I can chase up a Death Certificate on Thomas Hynes (alias Nestor).

Gold prospector

[Gold prospector]

Julia (Julietta) Anseline was married to a 'Thomas Nestor' in 1883 in Sydney.
As per my post above, there were two possible Thomas Nestors.
One of them died of TB in December in Sydney Hospital in 1888, the other was last heard of going to gaol in Sydney (yet again!) in 1893.

I have since found what I believe to be Birth Records of two of Julia's children from about that time, James and John.

For James, the summary reads "NAME: James E Nestor, BIRTH DATE: 1888, BIRTH PLACE: NSW, REGISTRATION PLACE: Broken Hill, NSW; FATHER -Thomas Nestor, MOTHER - Julietta, REGISTRATION NUMBER: 37269, HOUSEHOLD MEMBERS: Julietta, Thomas Nestor, James E Nestor".

For John, the summary reads "John A Nestor, BIRTH DATE: 1894, BIRTH PLACE: NSW, REGISTRATION YEAR: 1894, REGISTRATION PLACE: Broken Hill, NSW, FATHER: Nestor, MOTHER: Julietta, REGISTRATION NUMBER: 7851"

So, is the above strong enough evidence to conclude that Julia's 'Thomas Nestor' was, more than likely, the petty criminal?
(Because the only other possibility is that the other 'Thomas Nestor' had a child, James, with Julia, in his last year of life; then, Julia had another child, John, to another man in 1894, but who took the surname 'Nestor' because that was Julia's married name.....?)

[Gold prospector]

JULES FRANCOIS ANSELINE

Despite the modest information in the above posts (ie: his Death Certificate, his youngest son's Birth Certificate, his Marriage Certificate and the questionable relationship with Cambronne Anseline), I continue to have trouble finding anything more on my great grandfather, Jules Francois Anseline who emigrated to Australia from Mauritius probably in the mid 19th century.

Does anyone know if records from Mauritius are obtainable from somewhere?

Gold prospector

[brothers-searcher]

Hi All,
My connection to this thread is Mary MORRIS who is my gg grandmother via Agnes MACRAE my g grandmother.

A few points I have found over the years of my research (and I am brothers8 on Ancestry) The Parish register marriage entry for Thomas NESTOR (plasterer) and Julia ANSELINE does have Ada crossed out - could mean something or nothing. The parents of Thomas NESTOR are shown as Thomas NESTOR (indexed on Ancestry as LESTOR) and Catherine Taylor NORTH. Julia's parents are show as Thomas ANSELINE and Marry MORRIS.

The first child born to Julia and Thomas was James Ernest NESTOR and his father is shown as Thomas NESTOR baker 25 and James was born near Junction Mine - Mother Julietta ANSELINE 23 born at Lambing Flat. Mary Anseline was present at the birth. I can't find a clear reference to him after this, the death record at Sydney Hospital for Thomas NESTOR was filled in by the Secretary of the Hospital so he probably didn't have the details re parentage or marriage unfortunately. He was buried at the Roman Catholic Cemetery Rookwood

The second child is shown as John Alfred NESTOR born at Crystal St Broken Hill and one of those present at birth was Mrs Macrae. The father is just shown as NESTOR but John is listed as illegitimate. Julietta is shown as 27 years and born at Young.

I hope it is okay to jump into the thread
Lorraine

[brothers-searcher]

Jules ANSELINE

There are a couple of things here I'd like to add to what has already been indicated.
The marriage register entry for the Catholic Church Carcoar shows Jules birthplace France - no age - no parents listed for either bride or groom. Witnesses are shown as Charles DUMONT and Anne Mary FOREST, marriage 21 July 1871 at the Curate House.

The age of Jules on Frederick's birth (30) would put him at born about 1844 - by this time Mauritius was in English hands. But in 1876 (two years later) he is shown as 37 on his death certificate - informant was the Secretary of the Infirmary - so possibly did not have all information - but put Mauritius down as his place of birth. He is also shown as having lived 20 years in the colony.

Hope that helps
Lorraine

[majm]

Hi,  I am sure you are most welcome to join in     

Re the marriage at Carcoar, do you have the parish register entry and are you saying that it does not give up the names of the parents of the bride and groom or are you referring to the NSW BDM summary record which for that era likely does not include the information provided by the bride and groom to the clergy re their parents...     NSW BDM website 'admits' their records may not have all the information that the church registers included...

https://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Pages/family-history-research/registry-records.aspx
In 1912 the Registrar General wrote to all the Church authorities requesting that they allow him access to their pre-1856 registers so that a complete reconciliation could be made between Registry and Church Records. The Registry's Early Church Records were consolidated into Volumes and each entry was allocated a unique number. When the reconciliation was complete there were 158 Volumes of Early Church Records with approximately 50,000 entries.

The Registry took this opportunity to request access to the 1856 to 1895 church marriages registers. Some Registry marriage records from these years recorded only the details pertaining to the parties to the marriage. Details of the parents had been left blank although they appeared in the Church registers. These registrations were amended and a notation made in the margin to record the circumstances of the amendment.

The task of reconciling the Early Church Records and amending the marriage registrations was never finalised. The Registry's records from these years are not complete and it can be worthwhile for genealogists to contact the relevant church to find details missing from a marriage certificate or in the case of a birth, a baptism record where there is no corresponding civil registration.

Likely the parish register for that 1871 marriage may be in the Church archives at Bathurst. 
http://www.bathurst.catholic.org.au/?i=63&diocese 

Agh ... the 1883 marriage ... within the Sydney C of E diocese ... I am attaching two snips to support your comments re the information on it, and the 'scribble' handwriting by the clergy in recording the information that the bride and groom provided...

I expect the Carcoar Roman Catholic registry to include similar headings to the  St Michaels (Flinders St Surry Hills) C of E registry.   There were some administrative changes to the NSW Registrar General's functions circa 1871-2, including not just on the Land Titles functions but also on the bdm aspects too, but the clergy continued to hesitate to forward full details of their marriages until around 1895ish.

JM

ADD,  notice the church record has notated the NSW BDM reference no. outside of the left margin    1674   

[brothers-searcher]

JM,
The record I have is a copy of the Parish Register entry - these registers and many for the Catholic Diocese of Bathurst were copied by the Society of Australian Genealogists for preservation and access a few years ago. They are available on the electronic resources at the Library at Level 2 379 Kent street Sydney. 
The full transcription of all field is:
No: blank
When and where married: 21 July 1871 French Man's Reef
Name and surname of parties: Jule Anseline Mary Morris
Condition of the parties: blank
Birth Place:  France Australia
Rank or professions: Gold digger Servant
Ages: blank
Residence: Present: French Man's Reef French Man's Reef
Parents Names and Profession: Blank
Then in the area below these fields.
Married In: Curate House
Signed - the handwriting throughout is all the same so I expect the minister wrote it out.

I also have the transcription of what was sent in to the registry office. Unfortunately, especially at this time (especially in such remote places), many ministers, but especially Catholic Priests didn't collect all the information the Registers had fields for.
It was rather frustrating when I accessed the copy of the register to see that there was no further information - I did get excited there for a bit when I saw I could get the parish register entry - such is life.

Lorraine