Author Topic: John Wigley  (Read 1295 times)

Offline Jan Prit

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Re: John Wigley
« Reply #18 on: Saturday 12 May 18 23:23 BST (UK) »
Morning BumbleB thanks for your message, searching for ancestors is very tiring with one good eye. :'( I have been trying for so long to complete this family and others that I am connected to. :-\ I don't know where to go from here, finish searching through John and Harriett's children, or again search around the area where they lived, seeing John was born out of county. I have found so many of the Wigley ancestors have moved to Ladywood Birmingham, could they be cousins, or close family. Where would John Wigley learn his Trade of Commercial Clerk back then. :'( I found sometimes the Trade is carried down the family line, also the same names. :-[

Thanking you,
Janet :'(

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Offline wivenhoe

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Re: John Wigley
« Reply #19 on: Sunday 13 May 18 00:58 BST (UK) »
Can you list all the information on the death certificate, 1901.

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Offline Jan Prit

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Re: John Wigley
« Reply #20 on: Sunday 13 May 18 03:52 BST (UK) »
Afternoon Wivenhoe, How will that help, I maybe better posting it to you if I can.?? :-[

Regards,
Janet :'(

Offline wivenhoe

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Re: John Wigley
« Reply #21 on: Sunday 13 May 18 04:08 BST (UK) »
It will help because you are using a forum to advance your research, but giving less information than you have yourself.

If you are putting weight on the fact that George Henry's father is described as a veterinary surgeon, then you need to identify who is saying this.....who is the informant.

How knowledgeable is the informant about George Henry's life?. Does the informant give details correctly......John's  origins, marriage details, childrens names and ages etc. What occupation is given for John?

Who is saying that George Henry's  father was a veterinary surgeon?

(my correction here...to be George Henry)

Online BumbleB

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Re: John Wigley
« Reply #22 on: Sunday 13 May 18 07:34 BST (UK) »
The NSW death certificate, issued 1901, for George Henry Wigley, states his father is John Wigley, Veterinary Surgeon.  The informant is George Henry Wigley, Junior - image on a tree on Ancestry.

BUT, other than George Henry's marriage certificate (1858 in Stratford, London - occupations for both GH and his father given as Gun Maker) there is no other instance where John's occupation is anything other than Clerk/Commercial Clerk.

To answer Janet's question. 

CLERK
​a person who works in an office, dealing with records or performing general office duties:
a filing clerk
a junior office clerk

Before the days of computers, or even typewriters, these tasks would be carried out by hand.
Transcriptions and NBI are merely finding aids.  They are NOT a substitute for original record entries.
Remember - "They'll be found when they want to be found" !!!
Archbell - anywhere, any date
Kendall - WRY
Milner - WRY
Appleyard - WRY

Offline wivenhoe

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Re: John Wigley
« Reply #23 on: Sunday 13 May 18 08:08 BST (UK) »
George Henry WIGLEY, son, is informant. If wife Miriam was the informant I would read that detail (occupation of father) with greater credibility. You might expect her to have better knowledge of her husband's origins than you would expect of son George.

Family oral history usually contains accurate details, which are combined incorrectly. I suspect that the history of this family includes someone who was skilled at treating animal ailments, but would not be a vet. George is probably drawing from that story.

I would keep that in mind when researching the CROSS family. Maybe they had someone with veterinary skills.

Similarly, it would be useful to see how George's occupation is described on the birth certificate of a child....earlier birth in Victoria. I suspect that it would not be instrument maker. People had many job skills in those days.

From the death certificate.......who are the four deceased males?

Offline Jan Prit

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Re: John Wigley
« Reply #24 on: Monday 14 May 18 00:04 BST (UK) »
Morning Wivenhoe, BumbleB having computer problems at the moment, George H. Wigley wasn't born in Victoria, both of them came from England, Birmingham, Miriam Cross father was Stephen Cross from Essex and he was a builder. I have no idea who the 4 deceased males are. Its hard reading the Death Certificate. On George H. Wigley death certificate 24/6/1950 Jnr. parents George H. Wigley and Miriam, he married a Phillis L. Hodge in 1882 Sydney, details Surgical Instrument Maker, their daughter Ruby 63 when he died, she is my grandmother, on his Death Certificate in 1950 it shows marriage, Sydney, age 24, to Phillis L. Hodge and below Widower. This family is getting more and more confusing. :-[

Janet :-[

Online BumbleB

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Re: John Wigley
« Reply #25 on: Monday 14 May 18 07:27 BST (UK) »
I'm not sure that the family is very confusing  :-\  The only confusion has been caused by the entry on George Henry's death certificate (1901) that John Wigley was a Veterinary Surgeon.  The informant was GH's son, George Henry, who would have only hearsay knowledge of his grandfather.

GH himself was also a little confused when he married Miriam, in that he said that his father (John) was a Gun Maker.  :)

According to the tree on Ancestry (which appears to be very fully researched), these are the children of George Henry and Miriam:

George Henry - 1859-1901
Walter John - 1861-1942
Miriam Adelaide - 1863-1937
Alfred Robert - 1866-1867
Ellen Harriet - 1868-1909
Henry Edward - 1870-1870
Edward Anthony - 1872-1873
Herbert Richard - 1874-1875

However, you DO need to do your own research to verify the information.
Transcriptions and NBI are merely finding aids.  They are NOT a substitute for original record entries.
Remember - "They'll be found when they want to be found" !!!
Archbell - anywhere, any date
Kendall - WRY
Milner - WRY
Appleyard - WRY

Offline wivenhoe

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Re: John Wigley
« Reply #26 on: Monday 14 May 18 07:54 BST (UK) »
I know that George Henry WIGLEY was not born in Victoria. I gave you this information -

FreeBDM   SepQ 1858 W Ham    4a / 19
WIGLEY Georg       m.       CROSS Mireumn

Can you be specific about your confusion ...what are you confused about?

If it is about occupations, you need to consider context.

......Information given by the person....self reporting.

....information given about the person, during their lifetime, by another person.

....information given about the person after their death.

George Henry WIGLEY jnr, as informant for the death certificate of his father, George Henry WIGLEY snr, and describing the paternal grandfather that he would have no memory of, is likely using information gained about family generally - someone among his WIGLEY / CROSS ancestors was a competent healer of ailments in  animals. Consider it to be useful information in researching your WIGLEY / CROSS ancestors.

I do not think there is much point to pursue the matter of John WIGLEY being a veterinary surgeon.
You might like to identify other children of John WIGLEY and Harriett PORTER, siblings of your George Henry WIGLEY, to see how they describe occupation of father John WIGLEY on their marriage records.

Birth certificates of children born to George WIGLEY and Miriam CROSS in Victoria would ask for father's occupation. For all that George, in NSW, is an instrument maker, I think his occupation in Victoria would be something else. The 1866 birth is closest to the 1861 Census in England, and information might be useful to locate the WIGLEY family in this census.

BDM VIC births
1866 / 16547 WIGLEY Alfred Robert   parents George Henry / Miriam (Cross)  @ CARLTON
1868 / 17648 WIGLEY Ellen Harriet   parents George Henry / Miriam (Cross)  @ MELB
1870 / 17147 WIGLEY Henry Edward   parents George Henry / Miriam (Cross)  @ MELBOURNE

From the death certificate, George Henry WIGLEY, and attached to family tree on Ancestry -

Informant: George WIGLEY, son, 42 Albert St Stanmore
George Henry WIGLEY, surgical instrument maker, 65yrs, died 2 Oxford Sq  18 Dec 1901
Father:      John WIGLEY, veterinary surgeon
Mother:      Harriett PORTER
Married:     London England at age 22yrs to Miriam CROSS
Born:         Birmingham England, 29 years in NSW, 6 years in VIC
Issue:       George H 42y, Walter J 40y, Miriam A (JACK) 38y, Ellen (LEECE) 34Y    living
                4 males deceased
Buried:     20 Dec Independent Cemetery Rookwood.

This would be the four sons, deceased at 1901 -
BDM VIC death
1867 / 1146 WIGLEY   Alfred  parents George / Miriam (Cross)   age 4  @ CARL
1870 / 9499 WIGLEY Henry  parents George / Miriam (Cross)   age 5 @ CARL   

BDM NSW death
1875 / 849 WIGLEY  Herbert parents George / Miriam   @ Sydney
1873 / 633 WIGLEY  Edward A  parents George / Marion  @ Sydney

At Rookwood Independent Cemetery
George H WIGLEY           87 Year  2/06/1971   Zone A /Independent General F   80   
George Henry WIGLEY   91 Year 27/06/1950   Zone A /Independent General F   80