Author Topic: Will and Death date variations  (Read 3818 times)

Offline arthurk

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Re: Will and Death date variations
« Reply #27 on: Sunday 13 May 18 09:54 BST (UK) »
Having explored various possible discrepancies, have we now established that the real difficulty is that the burial was recorded as 9 Mar 1745, and the will was apparently written on 14 May 1746, 9 weeks and 3 days later?

I'd still like to know if there are any alternative sources for the burial (BTs etc), otherwise I'm wondering if it might be down to a copying error somewhere - March for May or vice versa, and a figure 1 added or omitted. The fact that these dates are in different years complicates it a bit, and I'm not quite sure how to resolve that.
Researching among others:
Bartle, Bilton, Bingley, Campbell, Craven, Emmott, Harcourt, Hirst, Kellet(t), Kennedy,
Meaburn, Mennile/Meynell, Metcalf(e), Palliser, Robinson, Rutter, Shipley, Stow, Wilkinson

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline ~buttons~

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Re: Will and Death date variations
« Reply #28 on: Monday 14 May 18 00:47 BST (UK) »
Just a thought ...

Is it possible that Henry Rider went to London sometime in 1746 as Judith's daughter Catherine had gone there/run away at about the same time. Could Henry have died outside his home town?

Poor Judith - with all the fuss about dau Kitty AND then her husband dying about the same time, she must have been rather distraught.



Offline Syd R

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Re: Will and Death date variations
« Reply #29 on: Monday 14 May 18 01:11 BST (UK) »
Thanks to all for input
Yes I think we have explored all options and accept either an error or the dating philosophy at the time is the cause
SydR

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Re: Will and Death date variations
« Reply #30 on: Monday 14 May 18 06:46 BST (UK) »

Thanks to all for input
Yes I think we have explored all options and accept either an error or the dating philosophy at the time is the cause
SydR

Oh what a shame - just as it was getting exciting having found that Henry's step daughter was a ghost ..... the bigamist pretty Kitty Canham.  :D

Good luck with your search anyway


Offline Syd R

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Re: Will and Death date variations
« Reply #31 on: Monday 14 May 18 09:28 BST (UK) »
Yes that is also a great story one which has kept the tongues wagging for many years.

SydR

Offline BushInn1746

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Re: Will and Death date variations
« Reply #32 on: Tuesday 22 May 18 16:33 BST (UK) »
Marriage Licence/Allegations below (partial only)

Could the confusion be that Henry's WILL mentions his "Marriage Articles" dated 7 Nov 1745?

Syd R said "copy held" of the actual marriage record. Would be interesting to see the original parish marriage record and the name of the church.

Hello

Just noticed this thread and took me to this post.

"Marriage Articles" is like a Marriage Settlement relating to landed property.

The date of the "Marriage Articles" is when the property settlement is drawn up in repect of their landed property, or Estate/s.

Mark

Offline BushInn1746

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Re: Will and Death date variations
« Reply #33 on: Tuesday 22 May 18 17:58 BST (UK) »
Under current English law, marriage invalidates any will written before the marriage (unless, I believe, it is explicitly written in anticipation of marriage to a named spouse-to-be). I don't know what the situation would have been in 1745 or 1746 (or whatever).

See Married Women's Property Act, 1882
Basically, if married after 1882, a woman has been able, under the provisions of the Married Women's Property Act, 1882, to hold any property, and to deal with it, just as though she were a feme sole. So she has if married previously, provided the property has been acquired subsequent to 1882; but not otherwise.
(published in Title Deeds Old and New, 1928)


Then this book Title Deeds Old and New by Francis R. Stead, p.47, also referring to Common Law before the 1882 change in the Law refers to coverture. Jointly seised and curtesy. Then several pages to the end of the chapter.

The wife could not devise by will during coverture ; but, if she survived her husband, she re-entered into full possession of her freehold estates. The husband could not deal with such estates beyond the extent of his interest therein ; nor could the lands, beyond the limit of such interest, be affected by his debts. Together they could alienate ; but in such case it was requisite for the wife to be examined apart by a judge or two commissioners (after 1882, one commissioner).

There is more to it than above. The book also says page 46 ... A Will is revoked by marriage. But, under the new law, a will expressed to be made in contemplation of a marriage is not revoked by the solemnization of the marriage (L.P.A., 1925, Sect. 177.)

The above is NOT to be taken as Legal Advice as parts of the 1928 book will likely be out of date, refers to old Laws too and the above are only bits of the old book text.

Mark

Offline BushInn1746

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Re: Will and Death date variations
« Reply #34 on: Tuesday 22 May 18 18:28 BST (UK) »
Having explored various possible discrepancies, have we now established that the real difficulty is that the burial was recorded as 9 Mar 1745, and the will was apparently written on 14 May 1746, 9 weeks and 3 days later?

I'd still like to know if there are any alternative sources for the burial (BTs etc), otherwise I'm wondering if it might be down to a copying error somewhere - March for May or vice versa, and a figure 1 added or omitted. The fact that these dates are in different years complicates it a bit, and I'm not quite sure how to resolve that.

Syd, you do realise that the NBI is incomplete.

Some people were buried in Burial Grounds, Chapels on Country Estates, which have long ceased to exist. Landed people and I've heard of a Quaker and other people being buried on their own Estate, Farm or land.

I've just been asking about a Nonconformist Burial Ground North-east England, we know from the Monumental Inscriptions taken about 200 years ago, that the Burial Ground is at least 300 years old. However, the Burial Registers only survive back to 1792.

A Will being Proved might be the only evidence of the death now.

Mark

Offline Syd R

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Re: Will and Death date variations
« Reply #35 on: Wednesday 23 May 18 07:07 BST (UK) »
Hi Mark

What I have seen is a copy of the Parish Records for All Saints, Epping and Henry is the third entry of five for the year 1745 and his burial date is shown as 9 March 1745.
The Will which is signed is dated 14 May 1746 and was Proven on 15 July 1746.
An error in dates is possible but which one? The four other burials all show 1745 and the will was proven in 1746, if there were issues with it could explain the time taken after death to have any resolved but this leaves the Will dated after death either by month or year or both.
This may be a quandary that we cant solve.

But it certainly tests the grey matter.

Cheers
SydR