I know it's a big ask - but can anyone help with this one?

[IgorStrav]

I wonder if I could ask for some fresh eyes on my research on my Burton family in East London in the 19th century.  They have always been difficult to pin down.

Thanks in advance to anyone reading – if you have suggestions or can point out any mistakes, I’d be really grateful.


I am starting again with them as my Ancestry DNA has pulled up a link with someone with whom I share no other matches, suggesting that the connection may be via this particular part of my maternal ancestry.  My linked person doesn’t have any clues to help – her ancestry seems rooted in Suffolk and Norfolk, but of course a remote ancestor could easily have moved into London in 18th or early 19th Century.

I have my grandfather Joseph William Burton’s birth certificate, marriage certificate and death certificate, and I am confident these are correct.

The family have been known as BURDEN, BURDON, BARTON as well as BURTON, but by later censuses BURTON seems to be the accepted spelling.

My grandfather Joseph William Burton was born on 11/12/1876, the son of Joseph Burton (labourer, and often dock labourer) and Mary Ann formerly WILLIAMS at 9 Star Street, St George in the East.  The birth cert calls him BURDEN and the baptism BURDON.

I have Joseph Snr on the 1881, 1891, 1901 and 1911 censuses, and there were 4 younger children, but although his ‘wife’ was Mary Ann, she must have been a second wife as the MMN on their birth certificates/references is Mary Ann formerly BARLOW.

My first task, therefore is to find out what I can about Mary Ann WILLIAMS who was my great grandmother, and (presumably) died before 1881.

In the 1881 census there is another older child with the family, another Mary Ann, born 1868 in St Georges East.  She is shown as aged 13, born in St George’s East.




Going back in history for Joseph BURTON senior, I believe I have him in the 1851 with parents William and Sarah at 10 Hungerford Street, St George’s East in the same area of London where he spent his life. 

I also have William and Sarah in the same street in the 1841 ahead of Joseph’s birth. 

William was born c 1815 in Bethnal Green and Sarah in c 1818 in Wapping.  There is a possible marriage for William and Sarah WISEMAN on 11/6/1837 at St Dunstan’s, Stepney, but I need further evidence to confirm this is indeed them.

In the 1851, my great grandfather Joseph Burton is shown as 11 months old, and this would indicate he was born in May 1850, but I cannot see a birth reference which would give his mother Sarah’s maiden name.

He has siblings, all born in St George’s East:
Sarah aged 15 (1836)
William aged 13 (1838)
Mary aged 11 (1840)
Thomas aged 5 (1846)
Catherine aged 2 (1849)

Plus two later children shown in the 1861, when mother Sarah has married again to Francis Clark, and is shown with him and several of her children, including Joseph and younger siblings Elizabeth 1853 and Emma 1858, both also born in St George’s.

I have spent a lot of time with the GRO listings, trying to find possible birth registrations with the same MMN for all the children born after registration in 1837, but with no luck.

There is a Burton family with MMN Higham, with several children born in Shoreditch, but this is not the right family – I have seen them in other censuses with father John and mother Mary.


I am very frustrated with all this evidence not to be able to find some key facts.
If anyone can advise me with any thoughts I’d be really grateful.

Firstly, then, can anyone find

a)   a marriage for Mary Ann WILLIAMS and Joseph BURTON/BURDEN/BURDON probably in East London between 1868 and 1880?
b)   the birth reference of the younger Mary Ann (possibly BURTON/BURDEN/BURDON or maybe WILLIAMS) in St George’s East, or local East London in c 1868?
c)   Joseph BURTON/BURDEN/BURDON or Mary Ann WILLIAMS (likely born c 1850 in East London) in the 1871 Census?

Secondly, can anyone give me any thoughts about

d)   Joseph Burton Snr (1850 St George in the East) birth reference and MMN?
e)   Any birth references for his siblings showing a matching MMN?
f)   A marriage reference for Sarah’s marriage to Francis CLARK with whom she appears in the 1861?

If you have read all this, very very many thanks.
It's been helpful for me to write it all out again, even if no-one can help.   

[avm228]

What version of the surname is the family recorded under in 1881?

[IgorStrav]

Sorry - BARTON on Ancestry

1881 census
Joseph Barton 51 est year of birth 1850 St George in the East.

Reg district   St George In The East
Sub reg district   St Paul
ED                   11
Piece                   455
Folio                   93
Page number   8

Edited - so sorry, that should of course say AGED 30 eat year of birth 1851

[avm228]

What is the 1891 census reference please?

[avm228]

Precise birthdates for William & Sarah’s early children (from baptisms at Christ Church, Watney St):

20 Aug 1835 Sarah Burton*
21 Jul 1837 William Burton*
04 Sep 1839 Mary Burton*
04 Jan 1841 Thomas Burton* (likely death aged 4, Jun qtr 1845 St George East)
17 Feb 1846 Thomas Burton**
27 Apr 1848 Catherine Burton**

* Baptised together on 07 Feb 1844
** Baptised together on 21 May 1848

[IgorStrav]

1891
12 Hungerford St
Joseph Burton age 31(I think an error, wife shown as 40)
Birth c 1860 London

Class RG 12
Piece 286
Folio 27
Page 7

With wife Mary, and children Eliza, Charlotte, William, Alice and Joseph all the right sort of age.

[IgorStrav]

Just seen the baptisms - thank you!

Surely if baptised will have matching birth regs with matching MMN.

Will look!

[alpinecottage]

In the early days of civil registration, some parents thought baptism or registration were equally valid alternatives to each other.  I just had a look for Catherine's GRO reg and nothing jumps out at me.  Also if children were baptised in "batches", that suggests to me that the parents may have been a bit "relaxed" about such things.

[IgorStrav]

In the early days of civil registration, some parents thought baptism or registration were equally valid alternatives to each other.  I just had a look for Catherine's GRO reg and nothing jumps out at me.  Also if children were baptised in "batches", that suggests to me that the parents may have been a bit "relaxed" about such things.

This is the conclusion I'd previously come to - though it's fantastic to have the baptisms.
I've got a spreadsheet of possible birth registrations where I've looked up lots of variations on names and tried to relate them to dates and see if any MMN jump out.  They don't.

I believe they were 'relaxed' about marriages, also.

But given the circumstances where they were living - both Star Street and Hungerford Street feature in the most appalling descriptions of abject poverty in reports at the time - I'm not one to judge.