Author Topic: Help with Maude Cecilia White - great-grandmother  (Read 639 times)

Offline avm228

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Re: Help with Maude Cecilia White - great-grandmother
« Reply #9 on: Monday 14 May 18 00:10 BST (UK) »
Looks like Maude was well on the way when her parents married on 19 March 1860 at Holy Trinity Church, Lambeth.

George Charles Rowland bachelor, vocalist* of 21 Crozier St.  Father: James Rowland, tailor.
Jane Augusta Haselgrove spinster of 26 Paris St.  Father: Ambrose Haselgrove, hotelkeeper.

Witnesses: Edward Lawson; Cecilia Lawson.

*His musical occupation is interesting, as I see from later records that his grandson James Charles White became an orchestral violinist.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

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Offline avm228

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Re: Help with Maude Cecilia White - great-grandmother
« Reply #10 on: Monday 14 May 18 00:10 BST (UK) »
Just a thought but...

Could Cecilia & Maude (sisters) be the same person, maybe didn't like her name?

Annie

No, they were born and separately registered 14 years apart and appear in different places in 1891 (Cecilia “Celia” still with parents in Richmond).
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

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Online Rosinish

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Re: Help with Maude Cecilia White - great-grandmother
« Reply #11 on: Monday 14 May 18 00:28 BST (UK) »
Thanks avm,

Hard trying to grasp so much info. in one quick reading with similar names & late at night!  ;D

Annie
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Offline Chris Hobley

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Re: Help with Maude Cecilia White - great-grandmother
« Reply #12 on: Monday 14 May 18 07:28 BST (UK) »
Many thanks to all contributors to this post - what a fantastic response!

I had wondered about the Charlie Rowland link, and there is a Maude C Rowland as noted, who looks like she was quite a bit older than the rest of the family ("well on the way" as @avm228 notes). George C Rowland, if that was her father, seems to have had some interesting career changes after being a vocalist (working for the London Gazette, then latterly as a secretary to Richmond Hospital).

As to Cecilia (my grandmother) I have no absolute record of her middle name, just the initial on various censuses and work references. In the absence of a Rowland/White definitive marriage (possibly not in country), I might have to try looking for a link via James Charles (who was a talented musician, remembered by my mother as playing violin and the organ - also came out to Africa to visit his sister, but sadly took ill and died in Bulawayo).

I will look through the various suggestions and keep on plugging away. Thanks again.

Offline avm228

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Re: Help with Maude Cecilia White - great-grandmother
« Reply #13 on: Monday 14 May 18 12:30 BST (UK) »
When did Cecilia emigrate to Rhodesia, and what was her surname at the time (was she already married)?
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline avm228

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Re: Help with Maude Cecilia White - great-grandmother
« Reply #14 on: Monday 14 May 18 12:39 BST (UK) »
Thanks avm,

Hard trying to grasp so much info. in one quick reading with similar names & late at night!  ;D

Annie

Yes, these puzzles keep us up much too late, don’t they :D
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline avm228

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Re: Help with Maude Cecilia White - great-grandmother
« Reply #15 on: Monday 14 May 18 12:42 BST (UK) »
I see that James Charles White married twice:

Mar qtr 1911 Brighton, to Lilian Vivian Patricia Gale (she died Brighton Sep qtr 1913 aged 21)
Sep qtr 1918 Tonbridge to Rose E Fenner (she was Rose Ethel, according to his 1944 probate record)

There’s a likely son born to the first marriage: James George White, mmn Gale, Sep qtr 1911 Brighton, followed by four White/Fenner children in Brighton 1919 -1932.

Paternal details should (one hopes) be included on James Charles’ marriage certificates, though sometimes the space is simply crossed through where there has been early bereavement or estrangement.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline Annette7

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Re: Help with Maude Cecilia White - great-grandmother
« Reply #16 on: Monday 14 May 18 14:55 BST (UK) »
Maude's son and daughter appear to have been born illegitimately:

James Charles Rowland - Sept.qtr.1883 Lambeth

Cecilia Victoria Rowland - June quarter 1887 Fulham

(both births show no mmn on new GRO index which indicates illegitimacy).

Annette
Scopes (One-Name Study - Worldwide)
Suffolk - Grist, Knights, Bullenthorpe, Watcham
Scotland - Spence, Horne, Cowan, Moffat
London -  Monk

Don't walk behind me, I may not lead.   Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow.   Just walk beside me and be my friend.

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Annette7

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Re: Help with Maude Cecilia White - great-grandmother
« Reply #17 on: Monday 14 May 18 15:10 BST (UK) »
In 1881 it looks as if as 'Maud' bc.1860 Richmond (where she'd lived from age 5) is a visitor in Cambridge - occupation 'pianist'.

Annette
Scopes (One-Name Study - Worldwide)
Suffolk - Grist, Knights, Bullenthorpe, Watcham
Scotland - Spence, Horne, Cowan, Moffat
London -  Monk

Don't walk behind me, I may not lead.   Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow.   Just walk beside me and be my friend.

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk