Johnson and Johnson marriage Lambeth?

[MaxD]

John Johnson whip maker and Mary Johnson (maiden name) were the parents of, among others, Ellen Johnson born 1845 for whom we have the birth certificate.

With the great help of folk on an earlier thread http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=791327.0 we have their first census appearance 1841 in Union Street Lambeth with children William Johnson 10 Henry Johnson  10 John Johnson 8 Richard Johnson 1.  Subsequent 1851 and 1861 appearances are in Lambeth.
He is born 1807 ish Lancashire, she (who may be Mary M) is 1804 ish various places given but are all essentially Lambeth.

Maiden Stone has floated the thought that Ann Henrietta (1851 census but not 1841) who is the only child born away from Lambeth may be from a different relationship?

Quest now is to find the John Johnson/Mary (M) Johnson marriage 1830ish??

MaxD

[emeltom]

What about this one from familysearch

John Johnson/Mary Martha Johnson 20 August 1826 Holborn, Middlesex

Emeltom

[ciderdrinker]

John Henry Johnson bapt 27 May 1827 St Mary Lambeth Park Place whip maker
William Henry 8.3.1829  St John's Russell St.

2nd marriage for John 1.2.1869 to Keturah  Grose  gives father John whip maker.

Ciderdrinker

[MaxD]

emeltom

Thank you.  I had seen the Holborn marriage.  In the register Mary has (it appears) signed her name.  On the 1845 birth cert of daughter Ellen she makes her mark only. I had discounted it.

However, looking at it again, I have a suspicion that the vicar perhaps signed her name for her, the smaller lettering looks very much like the script of her name - or am I seeing things?

If this is the marriage, any thoughts on how to ident parents?

ciderdrinker

I see the 1827 and 1829 baptisms thank you.  Given the rounding off of ages in the 1841, they could be the two "10 year olds".   There is also a death for Mary Martha in 1865 Lambeth which would add up with John's second marriage - thanks for that.

MaxD

[MaxD]

Bingo (I think).  Mary Martha Johnson born Sept 23 (or 25) 1802 baptised 12 Dec 1802, father Henry, victualler, mother Mary Martha,  Christ Church Southwark (Blackfriars Road and Christchurch both appear in her later census POB).  London Church of England Baptisms etc 1538-1812.

Now for John in Rusholme Lancs.
Possible baptism Cathedral Manchester 21 Jul 1807, but there are others.

Really need the details of the 1826 Holborn marriage!

Thoughts??

MaxD

[polarbear]

IMHO, Mary signed for herself on the marriage record. It is possible that when a child's birth was registered the registrar assumed she couldn't write and simply told her to make the mark. I have had this sort of thing happen among my ancestors, one birth a signature and the next an x; same mother who also signed her marriage record.

Since images of both of John's marriages are on line (An....ry), you can compare his signatures. Considering the many years between the 2 events the signatures look quite similar.

2 very interesting threads.

PB

[MaxD]

Thanks for that PB.

MaxD

[MaxD]

PB - I agree the two signatures are remarkably similar, thank you for ferreting that out.  In 1881 we find John Johnson age 74, whip stick dresser, born Manchester, with wife Keturah living in, where else, Lambeth.

Beginning to think we are on the right trail, excitement builds.  Father's name helped also, there is a birth/baptism Manchester St Ann 2 miles for Rusholme 1807, father John.

MaxD

[polarbear]

Yes, looking good, I think. Always difficult prior to July of 1837, of course.

PB