Author Topic: Birth Record of George James of Monkton  (Read 535 times)

Offline G Reese

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Birth Record of George James of Monkton
« on: Tuesday 15 May 18 15:46 BST (UK) »
Hello all,

My 3rd great grandfather George James left behind many puzzles, including his birth record. I have pretty high confidence in his 1859 marriage certificate, in which his father is listed as George James.

Other sources that I have which include census returns, newspaper articles, and his death certificate, indicate he was born in Monkton circa 1819.

My relatives identified a Saint Mary of Pembroke baptism record as his, with the date of 7 Aug 1819. Parents listed are John James (laborer) and Elizabeth James of Moncton Lane. The only other possible baptism records are in 1826 in Monkton (parents George and Sarah) or 1820 in Amroth (parents George and Choice).

My family's accepted birth record seems right by the date and place, but I have difficulty reconciling the difference in fathers' names between the marriage certificate and the baptism record. How could George James incorrectly remember his father's name? Or, has my family chosen the wrong baptism record after all?

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Offline KGarrad

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Re: Birth Record of George James of Monkton
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 15 May 18 16:08 BST (UK) »
Birth records didn't exist before the onset of Civil Registration (1st July 1837).
So, you have to rely on a Baptism record.

And, no! They aren't the same ;D
My daughters (40 today) have birth records, but have never been baptised. ;)
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

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Offline G Reese

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Re: Birth Record of George James of Monkton
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 15 May 18 16:14 BST (UK) »
You are right--in my head I equate birth records to baptism records pre-1837. Sorry for the confusion.  :-X

If George had been born after 1837 this would have been a lot simpler, but instead he had to join the military at 18 and disappear from census records until he got out. The first time I find him in census records is 1861, married with children.

Offline dillybert

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Re: Birth Record of George James of Monkton
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 15 May 18 17:10 BST (UK) »
Could they possibly have had him baptised when he was older, so the monkton one with the right parents is correct, just that he was a child rather than a baby?

The original baptism record might note this.

Do George and Sarah have other children in Monkton around the time?
SMITH - Brewood/Coven, Staffs; FORSTER, Staffs; BIGGS - Lidlington, Beds; WILLCOCKS, Devon/South London; ALLEN - IOW/SouthLondon

Offline G Reese

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Re: Birth Record of George James of Monkton
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 15 May 18 18:20 BST (UK) »
I think that it is possible that he was baptized as a child rather than an infant, but the 1826 record makes no indication of this. It does indicate that he was baptized with his twin sister Sarah. 6-7 year old children being baptized together seems very unusual, but not outside the realm of possibility.

As it happens, I found a family tree of a descendant of Sarah James through some extended Googling, but I haven't had success in contacting them to compare notes as of yet.

The 7 Aug 1819 baptism (to John and Elizabeth) is very compelling because he would have been only a week old if his obituary is correct in his birthdate of 1 Aug 1819.

Offline osprey

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Re: Birth Record of George James of Monkton
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 15 May 18 18:46 BST (UK) »
the Sarah daughter of George & Sarah is on the 1851 census with them in Monkton HO107/2476 folio 4 pg 14. She shows as 24. She's also on the 1841 census with them and other siblings including George.

Who did George marry in 1859? Where is he living after that? Could you give census refs please?
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline G Reese

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Re: Birth Record of George James of Monkton
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 15 May 18 19:42 BST (UK) »
Sure, didn't want to firehose y'all from the gate.

According to his son John James, George enlisted in the army in 1839 in Pembroke.

Chatham & Hyde Park
George James 22nd Company Royal Sappers & Miners

8 Jan 1859 Marriage by license in Castlemartin
George James of Monkton, father George James
Elizabeth James of Castlemartin, father Benjamin James

1861 Wales Census:  RG9/4155/ 42 p 17
St Mary Pembroke
George James 30    Birthplace: Monkton
Elizabeth James 23 Birthplace: Castlemartin
William James 1      Birthplace: St Mary

1871 Wales Census: RG10/5515/23/p 3
St Mary Pembroke
George James    44 Birthplace: Monkton
William James    11 Birthplace: St Mary
John James    7   Birthplace: St Mary
George James    5   Birthplace: St Mary

1881 Wales Census RG11/5360/19 p32
Swansea Town
George James    61  Birthplace: Pembroke
Mary A. James    60  Birthplace: Pembroke
John James    17  Birthplace: Pembroke
George James    15  Birthplace: Pembroke

Offline osprey

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Re: Birth Record of George James of Monkton
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 15 May 18 21:56 BST (UK) »
OK, that's the marriage I was looking at earlier in the parish records. The one before is by licence, but the one for George & Elizabeth is by Registrar's Certificate. So, either one or both of the couple could be non-conformist. So there may not be a parish baptism to find.

 Witnesses William James & Thomas Hughes
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline G Reese

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Re: Birth Record of George James of Monkton
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 15 May 18 22:29 BST (UK) »
Goodness you're right--their marriage was by registrar's certificate. Seeing as I've found baptism records for everyone in Elizabeth's family, that places the question on George. Their own children were baptized, but perhaps he never was?