Author Topic: Gertrude Butt/Francis  (Read 180 times)

Offline RebeccaNZ

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Gertrude Butt/Francis
« on: Wednesday 16 May 18 02:24 BST (UK) »
Hi  :)

I've been searching for a marriage record for a Gertrude Emily Butt born 1872 in Marlesford, Suffolk.

I have found her in the London Workhouse in 1892 I believe that Gertrude was an orphan raised by her grandmother for some of her childhood. She married Carl Franz/Francis around 1894 according to 1911 census. They lived in Hackney in 1901 and 1911 and had 5 children
Marie Gertrude 1894
Maud Alice 1896
May Victoria 1899
Charles 1907
Gertrude 1909

Carl Francis was a hairdresser from Bohemia. He had a few name changes going between Franz and Francis but according to family stories he was originally a Bosek.

I have been searching for their marriage record for a while and I am beginning to think that they weren't married. Its possible that they might have had a catholic marriage ceremony.

Any help finding their marriage or any other information about them is much appreciated as it has been a brick wall for me for a little while.

Thanks

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Offline KGarrad

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Re: Gertrude Butt/Francis
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 16 May 18 07:36 BST (UK) »
FreeBMD has a marriage for Gertrude:

March qtr 1893
Woodbridge Registration District     vol 4a, page 985

Butt/Brett Gertrude Elizabeth
< the only male on that page is >
Baker, George Porter

Please remember that the question on the 1911 census asks how many COMPLETE years the marriage has lasted ;D


Maybe they didn't actually get married?
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

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Offline Eyesee

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Re: Gertrude Butt/Francis
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 16 May 18 08:27 BST (UK) »
In 1881 she was with her grandmother Barbara Seager in Marlesford, along with a younger brother Charles aged 4.

Ian C
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

CLAPHAM, PARKINSON, Leeds and London
TOMLIENS, Herefordshire and Southwark
CLARKE, Sussex, Cambridge and Shropshire
FAULCONER, MANNINGTON, RICHARDSON, TICEHURST, BROOK, ELPHICK, FURNER All Sussex
UDY, CLEMENCE/CLEMENTS,WHITE, COITE, COBELDICK, Cornwall
BROOKING, Devon, India
FERNANDEZ, London, Somerset, Herefordshire
RUSH, CARTER, GIBSON, REMINGTON, London and Surrey
CHALKLEY, OLNEY, Hertfordshire
HARRIS, Essex

Online avm228

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Re: Gertrude Butt/Francis
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 16 May 18 09:34 BST (UK) »
FreeBMD has a marriage for Gertrude:

March qtr 1893
Woodbridge Registration District     vol 4a, page 985

Butt/Brett Gertrude Elizabeth
< the only male on that page is >
Baker, George

George Porter Baker stayed with his wife Gertrude until his death in 1942, upon which she was his administratrix.  She seems to have been born Gertrude Elizabeth Brett, Sep qtr 1875 Woodbridge.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline RebeccaNZ

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Re: Gertrude Butt/Francis
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 16 May 18 09:39 BST (UK) »
 
Thanks everyone! Yes I'm thinking that they did not get married too

FreeBMD has a marriage for Gertrude:

March qtr 1893
Woodbridge Registration District     vol 4a, page 985

Butt/Brett Gertrude Elizabeth
< the only male on that page is >
Baker, George Porter

Please remember that the question on the 1911 census asks how many COMPLETE years the marriage has lasted ;D


Maybe they didn't actually get married?

Offline trish1120

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Re: Gertrude Butt/Francis
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 16 May 18 17:16 BST (UK) »
GRO Birth Reg for Gertrude has her Mothers mn SEAGAR
Her Brother;
BUTT, CHARLES WALTER, Mothers mn   TEAGER**
GRO Reference: 1877  M Quarter in PLOMESGATE  Volume 04A  Page 762

From 1881 Census
FINCH, THOMAS  EDGAR, no Mothers mn (illeg)
GRO Reference: 1850  J Quarter in TENDRING  Volume 12  Page 297

Marriage Reg;
1852 Romford
Barbara Sophia FINCH/Walter TEAGAR on same page

1851 in the Tendring Workhouse we have;
Barbara Finch, 24
Thomas Edgar Finch, 10 (should be 10 mths)

1871 we have;
Barbara Sophia Seger 44
Walter Seger   14
Alice Julia Seger   8

1861 Census
Samuel Knights   27
Hannah Knights   24
Allice Knights   4
Harriet Knights   1
Barbara Teager   35
Thomas Teager   10
Emma Teager   7 born Hornchurch, Essex
Walter Teager   4

1871 Emma age 17 is a Servant in London

I would put my money on Emma as being the Mother of Gertrude and possibly Charles as well.

Although I cant find a Marriage for Emma to a Mr Butt/s or a Daeth Reg for her under Butt/Teagar or variants.

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Cummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND)

Offline trish1120

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Re: Gertrude Butt/Francis
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 16 May 18 17:36 BST (UK) »
I am still confused Emma married John William Brampton 1881 in London, Her Father Watter (Walter (deceased)

So a Birth Cert is need I think to sort out who Gertrudes Parents were.
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Cummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND)

Offline RebeccaNZ

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Re: Gertrude Butt/Francis
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 17 May 18 22:01 BST (UK) »
I am still confused Emma married John William Brampton 1881 in London, Her Father Watter (Walter (deceased)

So a Birth Cert is need I think to sort out who Gertrudes Parents were.

Thanks, yes just going to order her birth cert. The family situation with Teager/Seagars and all of their extended family is quite confusing. Barabara had a few grandchildren living with her for a while.

It seems like Gertrude and Charles must have moved to London on their own as 1891 Gertrude in workhouse and Charles was a 14 year old lodger.

Offline trish1120

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Re: Gertrude Butt/Francis
« Reply #8 on: Friday 18 May 18 08:00 BST (UK) »
Please let us know the outcome of the Birth Cert :)
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Cummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND)