Author Topic: King John: illegitimate issue  (Read 3271 times)

Offline Jayson

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King John: illegitimate issue
« on: Thursday 17 May 18 20:27 BST (UK) »
Hello

I’ve just started reading a very interesting book by John Ashdown Hill called ‘The Private Life of Edward IV’.

On page nine of this book there is a family tree highlighting all the English Kings from Henry II to Edward IV who have had bastard children. The entry for King John, however, states that he had no known bastard children. This confussed me because I remembered reading somewhere that he did, and that Richard Fitzroy was one.

Just wondering if anyone would know more.

Jay
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Online Raybistre

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Re: King John: illegitimate issue
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 17 May 18 20:53 BST (UK) »
According to Alison Weir in her book "Britain's Royal Families - The Complete Genealogy", King John had 12 illegitimate children including Richard FitzJohn of Dover, Baron of Chilham, Kent.
Ray

Offline stanmapstone

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Re: King John: illegitimate issue
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 17 May 18 21:30 BST (UK) »
"Although the names of no fewer than six of King John's illegitimate sons  are known........"
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01m32/

Stan
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Offline Little Nell

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Re: King John: illegitimate issue
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 17 May 18 21:31 BST (UK) »
Possibly King John's most famous illegitimate child was his daughter Joan who was married to Llywelyn Fawr (or Llywelyn the Great), Prince of Gwynedd in around 1204.

Sources say that John had 8 illegitimate sons and 4 illegitimate daughters.  Joan and Richard are perhaps the most well known.

Nell
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Online Viktoria

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Re: King John: illegitimate issue
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 17 May 18 22:00 BST (UK) »

John married twice,first to Hedwiga of Gloucester .No children.
Second wife was Isabelle of Angouleme, they had Henry(Third)
                                                                         Richard
                                                                          Joan
                                                                          Isabel
                                                                          Eleanor
John was nicknamed "lackland"presumably because there was nothing left for him to inherit.He was the fourth son,Henry,Richard (Coeur de Lion)and
Geoffrey then John.
In the little town of Crecy,there is a monument in the middle of the main street,erected by their mother Eleanor of Aquitaine,she had another title.
Eleanor of Aquitaine and Ponthieu. Crecy s in Pointhieu .
The little monument says it was erected by Eleanor of Aquitaine and Ponthieu in memory of her  four sons,John is described as "Sans terre".
He seemingly was as he is portrayed in Robin hood stories---- a very nasty individual.
The monument is in a poor way,well it must have been erected before Eleanor died in 1202.Very poignant.
                                     Viktoria.




Offline Jayson

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Re: King John: illegitimate issue
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 17 May 18 22:10 BST (UK) »
Thank you to everyone for your replies...so very helpful. I knew someone on here would know.

Jay😁
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Offline MKG

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Re: King John: illegitimate issue
« Reply #6 on: Friday 18 May 18 13:50 BST (UK) »
I feel I have to jump to John's defence. He was certainly no great king, but he was nowhere near as bad as he has been portrayed. No - the villain of the era was actually his older brother Richard - yes, the Lionheart. In an effort by the Victorians to provide figureheads for the Empire, Richard became transformed into a just and kindly king, dealing fairly with all his subjects and almost carrying a permanent halo. In fact, he was one of the worst kings England ever had. He could speak little or no English and spent less than six months of his 10-year reign actually in England. Even so, he managed to almost bankrupt the country three times over to finance his failed crusades in the Holy Lands and to pay the ransoms on the several occasions when he got himself captured.
Remember when Richard Greene was Robin Hood? And how often King Richard visited the Greenwood to talk to Robin, and everyone went down on one knee with bowed heads? Actually, they would more likely have spat at him, as it was Richard's fault that a large set of despots had been left to 'run' the country.
John had many faults, but not, I'd suggest, as many as his older brother. And at least he gave us (under protest) Magna Carta.
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Berwick (Tweedmouth and Spittal), Blyth(N'land) between the wars, Wrexham, Tattersett

Online Viktoria

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Re: King John: illegitimate issue
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 24 May 18 22:24 BST (UK) »
Richard was married to Berengaria of Navarre,but she did not live in England,there were no children.
Richard`s behaviour after the siege of Acre was certainly bloodthirsty.
Saladin proposed a reasonable settlement but Richard refused and continued the conflict.
The fact that Richard was not the good king  we were made to think he was does not really make John any better.Perhaps not exactly the wicked crony of The Sheriff of Nottingham as portrayed in Robin Hood stories but not really liked.The Barons must have been very disgruntled by John to force him to sign  Magna Charta.He withdrew  many rights granted since the days of Alfred.By signing Magna Charta he promised to keep them in future.
                                               viktoria.
P.S.Errol Flynn was also a very dashing Robin Hood. ::)

Offline Zen rabbit

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Re: King John: illegitimate issue
« Reply #8 on: Friday 01 June 18 07:07 BST (UK) »
"The Lion in Winter" is a cracking film about the family :-)
Stanton of Stafford
Bourne of Stoke-on-Trent
Smith of Stoke-on-Trent
Philpott of Pontesbury
Pugh of Worthen & Pontesbury