Missing death index and certificate [Brickwall]

[Jomot]

Per the linked posts, Anastasia Whalen/Whelan is on the Newcastle voting records at various addresses from 1903.  No husband is listed, and the return to her maiden surname suggests they may have separated.

In later years Mary Alice Whelan is with her, as is John Slavin.   A Mary Alice Whelan died in Newcastle in 1952 aged 66, which would fit with her daughter Maria Alicia.   

A John Slavin & Anastatia Whelan married in 1916, and there is a death in 1922 for an Anastasia Slavin aged 28, so likely the daughter as there are two Slavin/Whelan births, one in 1916 and one in 1919.

[JenB]

When I am next at North Shields library I will see if they have any information. 

Battista, the files at North Shields library can be a treasure trove so it’s possible RTL might find some nuggets of information for you there.

[JenB]

My other posts to genealogical communities:
r/Genealogy - https://www.reddit.com/r/Genealogy/comments/8jgvb2/missing_death_index_and_certificate_england/

British Genealogy - https://www.british-genealogy.com/threads/92019-Missing-death-index-and-certificate

To anyone looking at this Rootschat thread, I'd strongly recommend that you also take a look at the other two threads that Battista has quoted above, because there is a lot of information and suggestions on them. It would be a shame to duplicate information on here 

[Annette7]

Giovanni and Anastasia did have one child together - Henry Leo Battista mmn Finley birth Sept.1901 Tynemouth, his death in Sept.1902.

Annette

[battista]

"Anastatia Battista cannot be found in the 1911 census, although there does appear to be electoral records of her from 1913 onwards (under Anastatia Whalan). I'm not sure if this is her, I suspect this is actually her daughter of the same name. She reappears in 1934 for a death index as Anastatia Battista (age and location seem correct)."

Do you mean voting records?  Women didn't get the vote until 1918 and then it was only for women over 30 years of age.
Have you looked in the Newspaper Archive to see if there were any obituaries or marriage announcements or other articles for the family?  I have found the Newcastle newspapers were particularly fond of printing local news .
Also, do you know where his widow Anastatia was buried after her death in 1934 - maybe it was with her husband.

She's in the "Newcastle upon Tyne, England, Electoral Registers, 1741-1974", I guess @Silverhawk answers why that is the case.

Someone kindly searched on https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/ for me, as they have a subscription. Couldn't find anything to do with Giovanni Battista or Anastatia Battista (Whalan), but did find a lot on their children. Nothing relevant to Giovanni's death. I did a search with the free trial, couldn't find anything more, although I haven't used that site long enough to say I searched thoroughly. It's definitely an area I will be focusing on. Hopefully, I'll be able to avoid getting a lot of empty searches (I suspect my search parameters aren't very good).

A question I have an answer to I did find the burial place, "St. Dominic, Newcastle-Upon-Tyne, Northumberland, England", burial date was 20 Jul 1934, listed as an "Anastasia Battista Whelan". I wonder how I'd be able to find out if she was buried next to him? Contact the church?

He might also be buried next to or near his brothers Vincenzo and Antonio, or his first spouse Elizabeth. Although, I don't know where they are buried. Good points, I didn't think about Giovanni potentially being buried next to spouses/family.

When I am next at North Shields library I will see if they have any information. 

Battista, the files at North Shields library can be a treasure trove so it’s possible RTL might find some nuggets of information for you there.

Thanks @River Tyne Lass, that'd be much appreciated!

@JenB Any bit of information would be amazing.

Per the linked posts, Anastasia Whalen/Whelan is on the Newcastle voting records at various addresses from 1903.  No husband is listed, and the return to her maiden surname suggests they may have separated.

In later years Mary Alice Whelan is with her, as is John Slavin.   A Mary Alice Whelan died in Newcastle in 1952 aged 66, which would fit with her daughter Maria Alicia.   

A John Slavin & Anastatia Whelan married in 1916, and there is a death in 1922 for an Anastasia Slavin aged 28, so likely the daughter as there are two Slavin/Whelan births, one in 1916 and one in 1919.

So I think Anastasia Whalan (b. 1892) the daughter, married John Slavin (not the mother of the same name). There's a marriage index of them in 1916 and a 1922 death index of Anastasia Slavin (approximately the same age as the daughter, b. 1894).

I know Anastasia the mother, died in 1934 listed as "Anastasia Battista" in the death index, and "Anastasia Battista Whelan" in the burial records.

The "Newcastle upon Tyne, England, Electoral Registers, 1741-1974" are from 1903/4 - 1934/5. So if the daughter died in 1922, then the electoral records after that must be the mother. All the way up until the very last electoral record in 1935, she's living with John Slavin. Seems odd that the mother would still be staying with her son in law, after her daughter's death... Only one Anastasia Whelan appears on the electoral records for a year, not two.

Giovanni and Anastasia did have one child together - Henry Leo Battista mmn Finley birth Sept.1901 Tynemouth, his death in Sept.1902.

Annette

I'd seen his death index in 1902, I wondered whose child he was. That is new information, how did you verify Giovanni and Anastasia were the parents? I can't seem to find anything about that.

EDIT: Nevermind, found it through FamilySearch. Spelt Enricus Leo Battista, father Joanni Battista, mother Annae Finley Battista. First time I've seen that spelling variation.

[JenB]

A question I have an answer to I did find the burial place, "St. Dominic, Newcastle-Upon-Tyne, Northumberland, England", burial date was 20 Jul 1934, listed as an "Anastasia Battista Whelan". I wonder how I'd be able to find out if she was buried next to him? Contact the church?

The records for St Dominics are now held by Tyne & Wear Archives (see Roman Catholic registers on this link https://twarchives.org.uk/collection/user-guides-and-information )
I am uncertain if there is actually a burial ground at St Dominics. It is quite possible that the Funeral Mass was held at St Dominics, which is why she appears on their records, but that she is actually buried at one of the large municipal cemeteries in Newcastle.
Where did you actually find this record?

[River Tyne Lass]

Give me a week or two and I will fit in a visit to the Newcastle library as soon as I can.  I will try to find out more for you such as a burial place and death notice for Anastasia.  If I can find plot section and grave number you will be able to contact the bereavement services with the information and check if any others are in the same grave.

[JenB]

Where did you actually find this record?

Answering my own question  I see that it's on Family Search as a burial record.

However, searching the film number (1936946) on the Family Search catalogue I see that it is in fact listed as a death record from St Dominics, not a burial record.

So I'd now very strongly suggest that she is not buried there but in a municipal cemetery in Newcastle.

 

[battista]

Give me a week or two and I will fit in a visit to the Newcastle library as soon as I can.  I will try to find out more for you such as a burial place and death notice for Anastasia.  If I can find plot section and grave number you will be able to contact the bereavement services with the information and check if any others are in the same grave.

You're amazing I didn't realise libraries carried that information.

Where did you actually find this record?

Answering my own question  I see that it's on Family Search as a burial record.

However, searching the film number (1936946) on the Family Search catalogue I see that it is in fact listed as a death record from St Dominics, not a burial record.

So I'd now very strongly suggest that she is not buried there but in a municipal cemetery in Newcastle.

 

Ah ok, I see. I wonder how hard it is to track down which one?


As for Giovanni, would a death certificate be required for a burial? I'd imagine earlier on burials happened without one and eventually, documentation was required.