Missing death index and certificate [Brickwall]

[Love&Leaves]

Fantastic info thank you!  I was thinking it would likely be the Evening Chronicle as this is where the death notice was printed.  He is indeed buried in Elswick and I have his burial record so know where to find him. The service was held at St Mary's so should have been quite high profile. I'd like to think there is a stone but it is in unconsecrated ground so perhaps not . Hopefully I will find a bit more during my visit and if I do, I will be sure to update you. 

[River Tyne Lass]

You are welcome Sophie.  Please do let us know if you do manage to find an article about your ancestor when you visit the library.  I hope you are possibly able to find a gravestone too.

Just to speed things up when you arrive at the Archives looking for the criminal mugshots album I have found some references for you.  I am sure you will have a lot of things to cover in the short time you are here so I am hoping this will give you a head start.   I would also bring some ID just in case they ask for this.  I have asked the staff about a day photography pass and I have been told this is £10.  You can always look at the photos first before you decide to go ahead with buying the day photography pass. 

The reference you will need to get the album is:

DX1388/1

In the huge album -

John George Battista is on Page 166 - date 30.1.10 & also on Page 232 - date 9.6.13
John looks like he has lost a little weight in the second photo and has a longer fringe but I believe he is the same man.

Lily Spence @ Battista is on Page 190 - date 22.3.12
Robert Guthrie is on Page 212 - date is also 22.3.12

Note there is another Robert Guthrie on Page 133 - date 23.7.08 - however, I am not at all sure this is the same man.
The Shields Daily News paper at North Shields library, local studies department may be able to give some clues.  This newspaper is at the North Shields library.  It is a while back since I looked at the write ups but as I recall the 'crime' by Lily and Robert jointly (conviction date 22.3.12) was for receiving stolen goods.

 

[River Tyne Lass]

Sophie, I don't know whether this might be possible during your short time in the North East but I have thought of another possible avenue of research which might possibly help battista with the search for finding out what became of Giovanni. 

Giovanni's son drowned in 1911 as already mentioned previously on this thread.  Sometimes if someone died tragically there was a gravestone erected for them. Also, as you are probably aware sometimes grave stones can have references to other family members along the lines of .. 'In Memory of ..

I have found out that Anthony Battista was buried in Mere Knolls Cemetery.  This is just off the Seafront at the lovely coastal area of Seaburn.

This is Anthony's entry which shows which section he is in:

Entry No: 3237
Anthony Battista
Ship's Watchman
(23?) years
drowned in River Wear
Buried Jan 7
Ceremony by Father Rust
Ward 27
Section A Grave 6909
Depth of grave 7ft
Parish removed from: Monkwearmouth

You likely won't have time to go here as well.  However, I mention this just in case you do.  If there is a gravestone and if his Father Giovanni is referred to on this it could help close this mystery.

[River Tyne Lass]

Sophie since I am in Newcastle today and to try to save you some time I have checked the Evening Chronicle for your ancestor Vincenzo who I presume is the one who died in 1900 - I have noticed that I have previously found his death notice earlier on this thread.  Unless, I have missed something I can't see a mention for him apart from his two death notices on the 5th and 6th January.  I searched up to the Wednesday of the following week.

Unfortunately also, I have discovered that this one Journal microfilm which might cover something has been withdrawn due to bad condition.

There are other newspapers out the back so it might still be worth you ordering these out.  Of course, you could re-check in the paper I have had time to look at but I don't think I have missed him.

For what it's worth I also looked at a paper called the Newcastle Weekly Chronicle without success (apart from death notice in the Saturday 13 January 1900 edition on front page).  However, I noticed this newspaper had a Missing Friends and  Persons Wanted columns for people to try to find missing or lost touch family, friends and others.  Perhaps Giovanni going missing then is not so unusual after all.  Perhaps it might be worthwhile if you get time to look through these notices to see if one may have been placed for Giovanni.

This is an example in the January 20 1900 edition:

'Sarah Ann Geary wishes to hear from her brother, Robert Henry Geary, who left London 12 years ago; last heard of when in Cincinnati, U.S. Address:35 Hiberian Road, Jarrow-on-Tyne'

You could still have some luck in locating a grave stone though.  I have ancestors in unconsecrated graves and some have gravestones.

[River Tyne Lass]

Someone has just pointed out to me a possible lead ..

Findmypast shows a death for a John Baptist in 1918 in Chester le Street (birth year around 1846).  Perhaps this could be a name variation.  It does seem feasible that even if Giovanni/John left the family for whatever reason - if still living he may have still have opted to live relatively in close distance.  The Chester le Street registration district is not far apart from Newcastle.

There is another one for a John Baptist death in Glendale in 1919 birth year 1847.

[River Tyne Lass]

Hi battista,

It has been a while since we heard from you and I was wondering if you did get any further with finding out what became of Giovanni?

Incidentally, I know you live far away but if ever one day you ever get to visit the North East you may like to visit the Memorial Garden at the Linskill Centre in North Shields.  Your ancestors John George and Vincent - sons of Giovanni and Elizabeth - are both named on the Memorial boards in the garden.  I am going to attach photos for you to see.  I asked if it was alright for me to post these photos on here when one day when I was at the Linskill and was told it was okay.

[River Tyne Lass]

Here is the one for Vincent - address should be Norfolk Street - but it seems I missed part of the writing off the photo.

To see more photos of the Memorial Garden click on this link below and scroll down.  This is my thread about the poppy displays for the Armistice in November.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=797595.9

[River Tyne Lass]

Incidentally, regarding your ancestors who were onboard the Wellesley - there is a fascinating book called 'Tough Times & Violent Crimes' by Nigel Green.   This has some really good accounts on happenings in Northumberland and Durham and has lots of photos.  On pages 72-72 there is some really good information on the Wellesley and life onboard for the young boys.  There are also several good photos showing the moored ship in the Tyne and also of the young lads on board.

[battista]

Thanks again RTL, those photos are fantastic and I will certainly check out 'Tough Times & Violent Crimes'.

As for Giovanni's death, nothing has turned up so far. No failed leads to report, as unfortunately I haven't been able to find anymore.

I sent a letter to the General Register Office yesterday to provide me with a certified letter of no record for Giovanni's death. Waiting on a response. Perhaps they'll find something, if not, at least I have a letter showing I tried

I have yet to look in the Italian records. Unfortunately it's not indexed yet, so a manual search through the Italian books will be required. Additionally, I can't access the records without going to a LDS affiliate library. I went to one a few months ago, however, I gave up after waiting 30 minutes for the pages to load.