Missing death index and certificate [Brickwall]

[JenB]

Agreed - it is very odd.. but also odd that you would have effectively three Battista families (Giovanni, Bernardo & Johan) in the same area at the same time, all with sons of the same name (i.e. John George & Pasqualino)! 

I wold strongly suspect that 'Johan' is a mis-spelling of John which is the Anglicised version of Giovanni.

[Love&Leaves]

Perhaps W Brabant may have been a relation of the Brabants?  I suppose another possibility is this may have been a false identity.  I wonder if anyone ever checked the credentials of those coming to workhouses to seek workers?  If not inmates would probably have been at risk of exploitation.  Please let us know Sophie if you discover who W Brabant may have been.

I agree that W Brabant could have been a relative looking for a servant.  I found an article about Tynemouth Union from 1912 concerning the launch of a new scheme for children's homes - where children were to be placed in smaller 'cottage' homes run by foster mothers rather than being kept within the workhouse.  It seemed that this had been a long planned scheme and had been trialled in other areas of the country.  It makes me think perhaps Elizabeth was sent to work for a Brabant relative in 1904 aged 16, perhaps somewhere near to Bolton.  After a few years things didn't work out and she was admitted to the workhouse there, now as an adult aged 24 but then transferred back to Tynemouth, being where she originated from.  I understand that it was common place for workhouses to transfer people back to where they came from to reduce the financial burden on the parish that provided for them.  Sadly it looks like her story might have been one of exploitation being the only Battista daughter to have been through the institution as a child and obviously falling pregnant in the system.  From what I have read, men and women were kept well apart within the workhouse so often that situation arising was as a result of those in authority. I have been looking for a W Brabant in Lancashire and also an Elizabeth of the right age back in Tynemouth in 1911.. nothing yet.

[JenB]

Going back to RTL's original posting about this (reply #95 on p.11 of the thread)

Elizabeth 'Batista' was discharged on Aug 17th 1904 age 16.  She was taken out by 'W. Brabant'.

There was a William Brabant living in Newcastle in 1901. He was a furniture broker living in Albion Row. RG 13/4790/88/1

I don't think he was a brother to Charles Brabant of the workhouse, but it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that he was related 

[Love&Leaves]

Hi Jen, I too came across that William Brabant.. frustratingly nothing to connect Charles Brabant or Elizabeth.

[River Tyne Lass]

I am now working long day shifts at the moment but as soon as shifts permit I will check for the Newcastle burial when I can next get to Newcastle library.  I will also check for Pasquale  1911 incident in the Whitley Bay newspaper when I can next get to North Shields library.

Sophie which newspaper did you come across that story in and what was the date?  The date will help me to find any recording of it in the Whitley Bay newspaper.  I will also check the Newcastle Chronicle as the story may have also appeared in this.

Give me around a couple of weeks and I will get back on what I can find out.

By the way a freebmd death search for Northumberland and County Durham brings up two deaths for a William Brabant.  One was registered in Newcastle 1927 and one in Sunderland 1919.  Of course neither of these two may have been the one who came for Elizabeth at the workhouse.

[JenB]

which newspaper did you come across that story in and what was the date? 

There was an article about it in the Morpeth Herald of 11th August 1911.

[Love&Leaves]

Thanks Jen that was the exact article I found 

[battista]

Hmm, I am trying to find out if there is a second Pasquale/Pasqualino born in England. Unfortunately, I can only find a Pasquale Battisto born 1878. This is my Pasquale, not another one. Can't find any names that resemble him from 1870 - 1890 in FreeBMD.

It's possible another was born in Italy and moved to England, it would be nice if there was a census record of two of them or some document with a birth in town in Italy (I might be able to track down the Italian birth certificate).

Perhaps they are the same person, another mystery.

[WolfieSmith]

The Pasquale Battista who marries Maria di Carlo. They have a son Loreto, born Dec 1907. And another son Bernardo born Mar qtr 1912. Address on the 1912 baptism as found by RTL is 25 Coronation St. North Shields. They are at the same address in 1911 census except names are back to front and Pasquale is down as Loreta as well as his son. Maybe language confusions. Not sure how far we can go with 1911 lookups but just search for Batista Loreta.

As the other Pasqualino, son of Giovanni, was in the Navy from 1896 to 1920 and married as a bachelor in London in 1910, I think this is a different person.

Alan.