Author Topic: Death of Gottfried Haslebacher or Haslebacker b Switzerland 1862  (Read 372 times)

Offline Rosneath

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Death of Gottfried Haslebacher or Haslebacker b Switzerland 1862
« on: Tuesday 22 May 18 13:41 BST (UK) »
Trying to find a death somewhere ... posting in Norfolk as that was the last known location of Gottfried Haslebacker or Haslebacher.  He married Elizabeth Granath in Westminster in 1888 and they are together in 1891 and 1901 but by the 1911 census they are living separately. In that census, he was living in Great Yarmouth as a lodger, occ tailor maker and stated he was married. Details:
Gottfried Haslebacher says his age in 1911 is 49 years so born 1862 in Switzerland.  Hes a Lodger in
Great Yarmouth Norfolk England.

I think Gottfried and Elizabeth separated sometime between 1901 and 1909. In 1914, Elizabeth married again (to Niels Gregersen) stating she was a widow but I can't find a death for Gottfried anywhere. I've tried FreeBMD and all countries on Ancestry and Family Search but nothing comes up. Could Elizabeth have had Gottfried listed as presumed dead so she was free to marry? But he wasn't ....
It's a puzzle!
Armstrong and Cotter (Co. Cork),  Cooper and Davidson (Aberdeenshire), Cosgrove (Co. Down/Co. Longford),
Cotter (London/Cornwall), Ker (Edinburgh/Roxburgh), Martyn (Cornwall), Orpen/Palmer (Co. Kerry), Pryn (Cornwall), Garnett/Radcliff (Co. Meath),
Wilkie (Roxburgh)

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Offline CaroleW

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Re: Death of Gottfried Haslebacher or Haslebacker b Switzerland 1862
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 22 May 18 22:56 BST (UK) »
A Niels Gregerson is mentioned in this thread - is he the same one?

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=793400.0

Looks like you may have a connection
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Offline louisa maud

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Re: Death of Gottfried Haslebacher or Haslebacker b Switzerland 1862
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 22 May 18 23:37 BST (UK) »
Rosneath
I agree with all details about Gottfried, somehow he became separated from his wife Elizabeth , I have no idea why he was in Yarmouth and she in London, I have searched for his death, story has it he returned "home" but I cannot find anymore about him myself, the person who told me is now deceased unfortunately, I believe Elizabeth married Niels/Neils thinking he was deceased and therefore free to marry Niels Gregerson,

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=793400.0, this is a real puzzle that has been unravelled by others

Louisa Maud
Census information is Crown Copyright,
from  www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Garner, Marylebone Paddington  Northolt Ilford
Garner, Devon
Garner New Zealand
Maddieson
Parkinson St Pancras,
Lethbridge Paddington Slough
Jenkins Marylebone Paddington
Mizon/Mison/Myson Paddington
Tindal Marylebone Paddington
Tocock, (name changed to Ellis) London
Southam Marylebone, Paddington
Bragg Lambeth 1800's
Edermaniger(Maniger) Essex Kent Canada (Toronto)
Coveney Kent Lambeth
Sondes

Offline cuffie81

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Re: Death of Gottfried Haslebacher or Haslebacker b Switzerland 1862
« Reply #3 on: Monday 28 May 18 21:53 BST (UK) »
This probably isn't much help but here's a few more references to Gottfried and his wife Elizabeth...

Poor Law Record: Discharge
name: Godfred Haslebacher
age: 46 [born c1862]
discharge date: 22 Apr 1898
union: St Marylebone


The service record of Charles Victor Haslebacher, son of Gottfried and Elizabeth, names his mother as next of kin and gives her addresses as:
1) 39 Nogna? Street, Tooting?
2) 20 East Cliff, Folkestone, Kent

Charles' service number is 17659 and he was in the RH + RF Artillery regiment(s). His discharge record, 1919, also gives same Folkestone address.

Looking through the Kent electoral registers we have:

1921 - 20 East Cliff, Folkestone - Elizabeth Gregerson, Charles Victor Haselbaker
1922 - 20 East Cliff, Folkestone - Elizabeth Gregerson, Charles Victor Haselbaker, George Down, George Ernest Horn
1922 - 20 East Cliff, Folkestone - Elizabeth Gregerson, Charles Victor Haselbaker, George Ernest Horn
1923 - 20 East Cliff, Folkestone - Elizabeth Gregerson, Charles Victor Haselbaker, Walter Gamble
1924 - 20 East Cliff, Folkestone - Elizabeth Gregerson, Eleanor Maria Bateman, William George Leonard Bateman
1924 - 20 East Cliff, Folkestone - Elizabeth Gregerson, William George Leonard Bateman
1925 - 20 East Cliff, Folkestone - Elizabeth Gregerson, William George Leonard Bateman
1926 - 20 East Cliff, Folkestone - Elizabeth Gregerson, William George Leonard Bateman
1926 - 20 East Cliff, Folkestone - Elizabeth Gregerson
1927 - 20 East Cliff, Folkestone - Elizabeth Gregerson
1928 - 20 East Cliff, Folkestone - Elizabeth Gregerson
1929 - 20 East Cliff, Folkestone - Elizabeth Gregerson
1930 - 20 East Cliff, Folkestone - Elizabeth Gregerson
1931 - 20 East Cliff, Folkestone - Elizabeth Gregerson

Charles appears to have moved back to London at some point and died in 1938. And it looks like Elizabeth died in 1939.

GRO BMD references:
1896 Q1 - Birth - Charles Victor Haslebacher (mmn: Ellis); West Ham; 04a; 353
1938 Q1 - Death - Charles V Haslebacker; age 43 (born c1895); Kensington; 1a; 250
1939 Q1 - Death - Elizabeth Caroline Gregorson; age 69 (born c1870); Dover; 02a; 1950


Slightly off topic but somewhat related, Elizabeth's mother, also Elizabeth, appears to have separated from Henry Granath by 1896 and reverted to the name Elizabeth Ellis.

Islington Gazette
17 March 1896
Miscellaneous Charges
Henry Graneth, aged 61, a pocket book maker, of Victoria-dwellings, Clerkenwell-road, was charged on a warrant for 2 10s, bastardy arrears due to Elizabeth Ellis. Mr Horace Smith made an order for the amount. He allowed defendant a fortnight to pay.


EDIT: Added death registration reference for Elizabeth.
Anderson Banks Beard Brewer Caves Clarke Clinch Cooling Cuff Denton Gamble Gibson Gunn Mills Muncey Norris Notzke Reid Robinson Searle Smith Trundle Turner Weedon Wells Wilson

Offline cuffie81

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Re: Death of Gottfried Haslebacher or Haslebacker b Switzerland 1862
« Reply #4 on: Monday 28 May 18 22:40 BST (UK) »
A couple of newspaper references for Elizabeth...

Folkestone, Hythe, Sandgate & Cheriton Herald
03 August 1918
Assault On Wife
At the Folkestone Petty Sessions on Tuesday, before Councillor W J Harrison (in the chair), councillor E T Morrison, Councillor C Ed Mumford, and the Rev H Epworth Thompson.

Neibo Gregerson was summoned for assaulting his wife, Mrs Gregerson, on July 20th. He pleaded not guilty.

Mr G W Haines appeared for the complainant, and said the parties were married in 1914. They had been unhappy together, and the defendant had assaulted his wife on several occasions.

Mrs Gregerson said she lived at East-cliff, and since 1916 she had paid the rent and rates of the house. In January this year her husband gave her a few shillings, but she had no money from him since. In February he left town, ostensibly to seek work, and she had only seen him about once a month since. He rarely came home sober, and was cruel and abusive to her. On July 20th he came to the house drunk, abused her, hit her with both fists on the arms and face, giving her a black eye, and finally picked up the garden fork, which, however, was taken from away from him by Mrs Barton, a neighbour. She went in fear of him.

Flora Barton, 19, East-cliff, said she was called to No. 20, where she found defendant hitting his wife with both fists and threatening to murder her. He picked up the garden fork, but witness took it away from him.

By the Magistrates' Clerk: Defendant smelt very strongly of drink.

Defendant said his wife had forced this on him, and had always done so ever since they were married. She had tried her utmost to upset him and make him go away. He struck her in self-defence, as his wife struck him. He came to the house for his food card, and to see the boy, for whom he had brought a pair of boots.

Defendant was fined 1, or month in default, and was ordered to pay 1 1s costs.


Dover Express
24 February 1939
Obituary
Mrs N Gregerson
The funeral took place on Friday, at St Margaret the Queen Cemetery, Streatham, London of Mrs Elizabeth Gregerson, widow of Mr Neills Gregerson, who died at Dover on 12th February aged 69. The Rev B G Knight officiated. The mourners present were Mr and Mrs A Gregerson (son and daughter-in-law), Mrs Foreman (sister), Mrs Bland (sister), Mr Granath (brother), Mr Peters (brother-in-law), Doris and Elsie Peters (nieces) and Mr Terrara (nephew).

Floral tributes were sent by: Doris and Jack; Arnold and Dais?; Beat, Will and Barbara; Sonny and Dolly; Anne and Harry; Mr and Mrs Swan and Beatty. The funeral arrangements both at Dover and London were by Mr H J Sawyer, of 85, High Street, Dover.


EDIT: Fixed typos
Anderson Banks Beard Brewer Caves Clarke Clinch Cooling Cuff Denton Gamble Gibson Gunn Mills Muncey Norris Notzke Reid Robinson Searle Smith Trundle Turner Weedon Wells Wilson

Offline Rosneath

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Re: Death of Gottfried Haslebacher or Haslebacker b Switzerland 1862
« Reply #5 on: Monday 28 May 18 23:24 BST (UK) »
Thank you so much for all this info.  It throws a lot of light on circumstances.

Poor Elizabeth!

Thanks again
Armstrong and Cotter (Co. Cork),  Cooper and Davidson (Aberdeenshire), Cosgrove (Co. Down/Co. Longford),
Cotter (London/Cornwall), Ker (Edinburgh/Roxburgh), Martyn (Cornwall), Orpen/Palmer (Co. Kerry), Pryn (Cornwall), Garnett/Radcliff (Co. Meath),
Wilkie (Roxburgh)

Offline louisa maud

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Re: Death of Gottfried Haslebacher or Haslebacker b Switzerland 1862
« Reply #6 on: Monday 28 May 18 23:33 BST (UK) »
Oh my goodness, what a sad state of affairs,

What a wealth of information you have found Cufflie but so sad for all concerned

Louisa Maud
Census information is Crown Copyright,
from  www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Garner, Marylebone Paddington  Northolt Ilford
Garner, Devon
Garner New Zealand
Maddieson
Parkinson St Pancras,
Lethbridge Paddington Slough
Jenkins Marylebone Paddington
Mizon/Mison/Myson Paddington
Tindal Marylebone Paddington
Tocock, (name changed to Ellis) London
Southam Marylebone, Paddington
Bragg Lambeth 1800's
Edermaniger(Maniger) Essex Kent Canada (Toronto)
Coveney Kent Lambeth
Sondes

Offline cuffie81

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Re: Death of Gottfried Haslebacher or Haslebacker b Switzerland 1862
« Reply #7 on: Monday 28 May 18 23:51 BST (UK) »
You're welcome, it's just a shame we can't find any more on Gottfried, he's very elusive.

As for Niels, the less said about him the better.
Anderson Banks Beard Brewer Caves Clarke Clinch Cooling Cuff Denton Gamble Gibson Gunn Mills Muncey Norris Notzke Reid Robinson Searle Smith Trundle Turner Weedon Wells Wilson

Offline louisa maud

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Re: Death of Gottfried Haslebacher or Haslebacker b Switzerland 1862
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 29 May 18 08:08 BST (UK) »
I have deleted this message Cuffie

Huge thank you for the information as sad as it is

Louisa Maud
Census information is Crown Copyright,
from  www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Garner, Marylebone Paddington  Northolt Ilford
Garner, Devon
Garner New Zealand
Maddieson
Parkinson St Pancras,
Lethbridge Paddington Slough
Jenkins Marylebone Paddington
Mizon/Mison/Myson Paddington
Tindal Marylebone Paddington
Tocock, (name changed to Ellis) London
Southam Marylebone, Paddington
Bragg Lambeth 1800's
Edermaniger(Maniger) Essex Kent Canada (Toronto)
Coveney Kent Lambeth
Sondes