NSW Birth Records 1860-1863, Catherine Wilson & Bridget Wilson

[Feliss]

This is more of a general question about missing or at least undiscoverable birth records in NSW.

My great-grandmother and her sister were born in NSW around 1862-1863 (different years). For some time now, I've been looking for records of their births but have been unable to find them. I'm a pretty experienced researcher and have searched using various spellings of their names and their parents names, different years, leaving out parents' names, etc, etc and have had no luck.

I have baptismal records which show them being baptised in Goulburn but the dates don't seem correct to me. For example, I have Catherine Wilson born 13/7/1863 and baptised 2/8/1863, so she was three weeks old. Then I have her sister, Bridget, born 4/5/1862 and baptised 1/12/1866 when she would have been 4.5 years old. Why would they not have had Bridget christened at the same time as Catherine, if not before?

Also, the birth dates given at the time the children were christened differ from those recorded on their death certificates.

I understand that the birth dates given at the time of the christenings and deaths were simply those given by the family. They were not, of course, verified or required to be verified in any way so they could be wrong.

Now, the thing that I just don't get is why I had no trouble finding birth records for two older siblings (born in 1857 and 1859) and a younger sibling (born in 1866). The two older boys were born on the goldfields in a very remote settlement, yet their births were registered. The family had moved by the time the youngest was born but her birth was registered.

Can anyone suggest a reason why I might not be able to find birth records for these two girls? Or have any clever ideas of what I could try? Any and all suggestions are welcome.

[majm]

Yes, 
The bdm should have received quarterly reports BUT may  not have had a check / follow up procedure until 1920s, whole quarters may have missed being sent to be processed  or if not legible ... were not adequately recorded.  Scribble from a deputy may have  not got umm... registered at HQ.  If there had been a need for a copy during their lifetime they could  have obtained it locally rather than from  the Reg-Generals HQ in Sydney.

The  bdm deputy-registrars were part timers..  bdm was one of a number of functions for the Registrar Generals Office until very recent times.

JM.

[jamxr]

Not knowing parents names makes it hard to help but NSW BMD have the following:
Parents Samuel & Margaret
Wilson Francis, b1860 no 14153, Rego district Yass
Wilson Female, b1862 no 15342, Rego district Yass
Wilson Female, b1863 no 15340, Rego district Yass
Wilson John H, b1866 no 16905, Rego district Yass
Wilson Elizabeth M, b1866, Rego district Patricks Plain

[majm]

Not knowing parents names makes it hard to help but NSW BMD have the following:
Parents Samuel & Margaret
Wilson Francis, b1860 no 14153, Rego district Yass
Wilson Female, b1862 no 15342, Rego district Yass
Wilson Female, b1863 no 15340, Rego district Yass
Wilson John H, b1866 no 16905, Rego district Yass
Wilson Elizabeth M, b1866, Rego district Patricks Plain

This post has been modified.  It made mention of 1870s and compulsory registrations.

Here is the reply I had prepared as a word document. 

Hi there,

I disagree, 1870s and compulsory … sounds like UK perhaps.

 The Civil registration process commenced in NSW 1 March 1856.  Births were required to be registered within sixty days, by the parent.   Here is a thread I did up about various significant matters for 1856ish for NSW.  It includes a live link to Trove’s SMH of 15 Feb 1856, pg 4.   The following snippet should be helpful; it is part of the opening post.

        http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/12980625
SMH 15 Feb 1856 The short version of the requirements for Civil Registrations of BDMs …. “furnish books for the registry of births, marriages, deaths and forms for certified copies…..  The District Registrars are to transmit their copies quarterly to the office of the Registrar General…… Parent required to register the birth of a child within sixty days,  housekeepers to give notice of  the death of any person on their premises within thirty days …”Children may be registered upon solemn declaration of their parentage until they are eighteen months old, if not born in the colony”   Ministers of religion are to receive certificates of the registration of deaths when they attend funerals.  ….

ADD
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=660501.0 

JM

[Feliss]

Thanks everyone for your help.

I didn't include the parents' names because I'm 99.99% sure the birth records really aren't available. My question was more about why it could be that the records aren't available.

For what it's worth, though, the parents are William Wilson and Winifred Seery/Seary. Winifred was still married to someone else when she married William so she fudged her name and gave it as "Winford Seymour". She also gave her name as "Winford" when Edward, their first child, was born and as "Winefred" when James was born in 1859.

Thank you again for your help.

[wivenhoe]

NSW BDM birth

8760 / 1857 WILSON  Edward parents            William / Winford  @ Mudgee
9833 /1859  WILSON  James  parents             William / Winefred  @ Mudgee
8569 /1866  WILSON  Mary parents                 William / Winifred @ Goulburn

For each of these births can you identify the date and place of birth....date and place for registration of birth....name of informant.

"...Also, the birth dates given at the time the children were christened differ from those recorded on their death certificates."        What do you see on the death records...who is the informant?

How does the birth certificate for Mary WILSON b. 1866 record the previous issue.

Is Mary WILSON b. 1866 also baptised in Goulburn with sister Bridget baptised 1866?

NSM BDM death
3632 / 1871 WILSON  Winifred parents William / Winifred   @ Goulburn

[majm]

Excellent Questions from Wivenhoe. 
 
In case Feliss does not have the following,  I think could be of interest 
NSW Electoral Roll 1870 THE ARGYLE
William WILSON, freehold, Tarlo.

JM

[Westward]

With regard to the spelling of Winifred's name - it could simply be the different accents of the informant to the births and the registrar recording the information. Many people were illiterate in those times and if the informant came from a different part of the world/or of the UK than the registrar, the latter would make a "best guess" as to the spelling of a name.

At the time, most births were registered in person & it could just have been at the time of the daughter's births the family was a distance away from the registrar or they had more important things to do than worry about registration. Many families still considered baptism a valid alternative to civil registration, so having the children baptised - albeit with Bridget somewhat late - may have been considered sufficient.

I have one family in NSW where the 1st child was registered with the birth date of the second & the second was never registered. This was in the early 1860s. Probably confusion between the father and the registrar or simply the father hiding the forgotten/omitted registration of the first child.

[ozranga]

Hi
I have a record for a RC baptism in Mudgee.
Child: James Wilson.
parents: William Wilson & Winifred Leary.
born 7/2/1859 baptised 14/8/1859. abode Meroo.
Sponsor #1. Michael Leary.Sponsor #2 Mary Diggins.
hope this helps